WLB - MLB - SLB // 4-3 and 3-4

[Sharkn20]

Recently we discussed differents guys playing in differents front-7s... So for the newbies like me (well I know that am not so newbien, but still have a doubts)

Can (oh our teachers and masters) teach us, about the importance in each position LB and the most important areas (at least for you) in which Front 7 is more important??

Thanks a lot!!

[Guest]

3-4 tends to be objectively better/cheaper to run than 4-3, but depending on personnel, you might want to run one or the other.

With the 3-4 you can get away with having less talented linebackers (who don't excel in all areas) who are more specialized to their role. WLB just really needs PRT/PRS, WILB can be some garbage scrub who's only good at run defense, SILB you want a guy who at least has a zone coverage bar and is good at run defense, SLB should be good all around. (Although you can skimp on PRT/PRS if you aren't blitzing him.)

LDE still rushes the passer in 3-4, so you want a good pass rusher/all around DE there. RDE can just be a run stopper, as can the NT. Pass rush on those guys is just gravy.

With a 4-3, you want a good all around DE at both RDE and LDE. LDT also needs some pass rush. PRT you can skimp a little on pass rush, but I like to have two DTs who can pass rush in the nickel and dime formations with a run stuffer in my base set. The ideal personnel package you'd want to run 4-3 would be 2 good all around DEs, at least one good all around DT, and two good all around linebackers (for SLB and MLB). You can skimp on WLB a little in 4-3, just like with WILB in 3-4.

As you can guess, you're going to spend a lot of money getting two good DEs, an above average to elite DT, and two all around linebackers than you will on the personnel for the 3-4, especially since the role of one of these 4-3 players in a 3-4 is a WLB where you only need PRT/PRS. What costs more in FA? A scrub with high PRT/PRS linebacker and nothing else, or a good all around DE?

Playing 4-3 is worth it if you happen to have the personnel and if you want to get DTs more involved in your pass rush, (I feel like they get more involved in the 4-3, although I can't say it for sure with data.) then the 4-3 is worth it. Most of the time, you're better off running the 3-4.

[Sharkn20]

Awesome Copy paste in my Word right NOW!!

Thanks for the class... Really thanks

I need to found myself in defense, I played a 3-4 in my start here and was like a Gruyer Cheese... Now in a 4-3 is pretty better, but drafted, traded and developed well in the last two seasons in this side of the football, so maybe I could be as good as in 4-3 like in 3-4. Just is time to think about during that year and start to develop my favourite, in the real life I LOVE THE 3-4 but can´t decide to install in the Sharks until I don´t dominate it a lot I guess...

More opinions if you have time duddes??

[Aston]

Going to disagree a little here. The 34 and 43 are functionally identical and the differences are purely cosmetic - though it does have some strategy consequences (mostly about money).

DL
34 LDE = 43 LDE
34 NT = 43 LDT
34 RDE = 43 RDT
34 WLB = 43 RDE

LB
34 SLB = 43 SLB
34 SILB = 43 MLB
34 WILB = 43 WLB

Whatever you want out of the 34 NT or RDE, you want the exact same thing out of the 43 DTs. In either case, if you are employing run stoppers only, you're holding back the team's ability to pass rush, making for easier completions for the opposing offense. Mike did some sort of study on this at FOFC.

In the 43 the stats are distributed so that the ends get more pass rush statistics. In the 34 the skew appears to be even more heavy towards the WLB, but that's anecdotal and hard to really quantify. Ultimately what I think matters most is "overall quality of your 4 base pass rushers", whichever system you run.

Similarly, the WLB is equally unimportant as the WILB. Both leave the field in sub defenses (nickel, dime). The MLB probably has a central role and the SLB has some role in matching up on TE1s. So the WLB/WILB maybe have the least important duty here and getting outside run stoppers probably makes the most sense in both cases.

Strategy-wise: the LB with awesome pass rush ability and little else will have lower OVR than the DE with similar abilities. So, you might save some money employing a 34. However, a drawback is going to be your 43 defensive ends are interchangeable so you can move starters and backups around, while it's going to be tough to have backup ends fill the WLB role in a 34 if say, your starter goes out.

Both are fairly minor drawbacks. $$ can stretch your cap, but we aren't a cap crunch league. Carrying extra pass-rush-only LBs can be annoying, especially when they can't back up your ends and vice versa, but often it's not an issue.

[Aston]

Another thought: given you want the same things out of your 4 pass rushers in either system,

— 34 teams will enjoy getting WLBs easier in free agency and the draft, but have difficulty getting two DEs
— 43 teams will enjoy getting that second DT easier, particularly with the wealth of 34 teams around that more or less ignore this position if they have a starter, but DEs are still hard to get

[Guest]

I'm going to go ahead and agree with Nutah's disagreement.

Back when I ran the 3-4 I used to skimp on pass rusher at RDE and NT and it was probably to my detriment. (With NT it was a classic case of "real world football think" interfering with "FOF think." Always a dangerous proposition.)

Since then I've run situational RDEs and DTs and that's probably the better way to go about it if you can't get a good all around guy at those positions.

[Sharkn20]

What a Masters duddes... We are pretty afortunate to have both here, teaching us!!! Thanks a lot to both!!! Awesome stuffs!!! I will try to prove the two theories and adjust my team in function...

Seems that Nutah´s 4-3 is very usefull at this time, well all his team I know but... Look at his defense...


More opinions by other experts??

[Aston]

I've always run a 34 and I favor it Probably just because it's what I'm familiar with and I've had good luck with getting some WLBs on the cheap.

I guess I should add philosophies vary and maybe it's not a bad idea to just get run stoppers at RDE and NT in a 34. I just feel that this would equally apply to 43 RDT and LDT, though.

[Guest]

I've always run a 34 and I favor it Probably just because it's what I'm familiar with and I've had good luck with getting some WLBs on the cheap.

I guess I should add philosophies vary and maybe it's not a bad idea to just get run stoppers at RDE and NT in a 34. I just feel that this would equally apply to 43 RDT and LDT, though.

I pretty much did that with my best defense in 2022, but we weren't exactly sacking the hell out of everyone. (Although I didn't have any premiere pass rushers either.) The only thing I did to improve the situation was my situational pass rushing NT, Devin Sibley, who I didn't even have active every week.

Be glad you have Nutah, I'm only good for the basic stuff, Shark! :)

[mike17]

I've always run a 34 and I favor it Probably just because it's what I'm familiar with and I've had good luck with getting some WLBs on the cheap.

I guess I should add philosophies vary and maybe it's not a bad idea to just get run stoppers at RDE and NT in a 34. I just feel that this would equally apply to 43 RDT and LDT, though.

I always run 4-3.

Pass rushers on the line at all 4 positions, coverage guys at all 3 linebacker spots.

[Guest]

I always run 4-3.

Pass rushers on the line at all 4 positions, coverage guys at all 3 linebacker spots.

Jesus, how do you have any juice left to improve your offense? :)

[Sharkn20]

1 Hour ten answers... I love this league for that kind of camaraderie (Like Julio says)

Cheers for all!! During the off-season all of us are friends... Enjoy... Soon the pre-season will be here and one week after all of us want to kill the others!! hahaha


So your best LB at SLB?? Your best PR LB at WLB?? And your best run stopper at MLB?? If you run a 4-3??

[Guest]

Even if I want to beat the living crap out of you guys in season you're still all my friends.

[Isacco]

My opinion is that 3-4 is the best choice in a "cap crunch league". Probably for this reason Ben use only this. For me there are no differences between the two (the game is a little unrealistic on this topic).

[Nemesis]

Going to disagree a little here. The 34 and 43 are functionally identical and the differences are purely cosmetic - though it does have some strategy consequences (mostly about money).

DL
34 LDE = 43 LDE
34 NT = 43 LDT
34 RDE = 43 RDT
34 WLB = 43 RDE

LB
34 SLB = 43 SLB
34 SILB = 43 MLB
34 WILB = 43 WLB

Whatever you want out of the 34 NT or RDE, you want the exact same thing out of the 43 DTs. In either case, if you are employing run stoppers only, you're holding back the team's ability to pass rush, making for easier completions for the opposing offense. Mike did some sort of study on this at FOFC.

In the 43 the stats are distributed so that the ends get more pass rush statistics. In the 34 the skew appears to be even more heavy towards the WLB, but that's anecdotal and hard to really quantify. Ultimately what I think matters most is "overall quality of your 4 base pass rushers", whichever system you run.

Similarly, the WLB is equally unimportant as the WILB. Both leave the field in sub defenses (nickel, dime). The MLB probably has a central role and the SLB has some role in matching up on TE1s. So the WLB/WILB maybe have the least important duty here and getting outside run stoppers probably makes the most sense in both cases.

Strategy-wise: the LB with awesome pass rush ability and little else will have lower OVR than the DE with similar abilities. So, you might save some money employing a 34. However, a drawback is going to be your 43 defensive ends are interchangeable so you can move starters and backups around, while it's going to be tough to have backup ends fill the WLB role in a 34 if say, your starter goes out.

Both are fairly minor drawbacks. $$ can stretch your cap, but we aren't a cap crunch league. Carrying extra pass-rush-only LBs can be annoying, especially when they can't back up your ends and vice versa, but often it's not an issue.

Well, it would make more sense to have a passrusher who never has to face the strong side of a formation to have better passrushing stats. Who knows if this is how the game actually works though. But if you're a RDE, and have to line up against a TE who stays in to block even 10% of the time (as well as facing the LT), you shouldn't have as much success as the WLB who's position on the field is based on how the offense lines up.

Hard to say for sure if the game is actually this sophisticated.

Some people say that the WLB doesn't move to the weak side depending on if the strength of the offensive formation is right or left. To which I say, that defeats the purpose of having a WEAK-Side Linebacker. Then again, maybe it is that way, and Jim just programmed it to try and simulate (from a stats perspective) that the WLB lines up and rushes from the weak side every down. And maybe the game is less matchup-oriented than we know.

Jesus, how do you have any juice left to improve your offense? :)

Nobody cares about offense in this gaim. ;)