1993 Hall of Fame Discussion/Voting

[BradZ]

Cleary isn't either...and I remember this from last year.



You are doing the Stout and the BLB a disservice by not voting for Sierra.

I think the utility is dropping players who have received at least one vote, but have already been left off enough ballots that they can't get enough to get elected. Clearly not the way it should be working. Clay should have it straightened out in a bit.

[Clay]

List is fixed.

Next season, we'll have this worked out.

[Jake]

You are doing the Stout and the BLB a disservice by not voting for Sierra.

Sierra's an interesting guy to me. Two - maybe three - monster seasons, a SS, and two monster postseasons. A ring.

I think anyone who cares to remember would probably say I'm a stingy voter, but even I think Sierra has a legit case, so I'm surprised he only has 2 votes so far.

[Clay]

Sierra gets hurt by Diesel's very vocal man-crush. It's what I anticipate will keep the HOF Colonial-Free until 10 seasons after I leave the league.

[BradZ]

Sierra's an interesting guy to me. Two - maybe three - monster seasons, a SS, and two monster postseasons. A ring.

I think anyone who cares to remember would probably say I'm a stingy voter, but even I think Sierra has a legit case, so I'm surprised he only has 2 votes so far.

I'm not sure what he did in the postseason counts as two monster postseasons. He drove in a total of 4 runs and scored 4 as well. 4 XBH in '87, but other than that he was a non-factor.

He gets hurt by his position (lack of power as a 1B) and the fact that he never rebounded from his broken ankle which cost him most of the '84 season and derailed his career.

[Pat]

I'm not sure what he did in the postseason counts as two monster postseasons. He drove in a total of 4 runs and scored 4 as well. 4 XBH in '87, but other than that he was a non-factor.

He gets hurt by his position (lack of power as a 1B) and the fact that he never rebounded from his broken ankle which cost him most of the '84 season and derailed his career.

http://www.simgamingnetwork.com/blb/...?player_id=262

He was an absolute monster in the '83 playoffs by the way. He missed the playoffs in '81 and '82 due to Stout power and no WC. And he carried those early D.C. lineups.

[Lintyfresh85]

Cleary needs to be a Hall of Famer. You take him off the top dog Maine teams and ship him out to Morgantown... and he still produces.

He had 424 saves after the age 27. Obviously, I know we don't have a set rule on how this is governed... but you have to factor in "what could have been" prior to 1978, right? If so, that easily puts him over 500 saves, and a sure fire Hall of Famer.

[Pat]

I think Sierra, as well as Romano Gonzalez deserve strong recognition to be in the HOF. However, Gonzalez got a late start at 29 years old in '78 and Sierra had the injury, so I can understand why some wouldn't vote for them.

I also agree with Linty on Cleary.

[Matt]

Great job Brad setting it up.

I voted for a lot if guys. We need to get some of the early guys in there.

[Spectre]

It would be a crime if Latham doesn't make it to the Hall of Fame

That fact that he was able to stay so productive late in his career is amazing

[BradZ]

http://www.simgamingnetwork.com/blb/...?player_id=262

He was an absolute monster in the '83 playoffs by the way. He missed the playoffs in '81 and '82 due to Stout power and no WC. And he carried those early D.C. lineups.

I stand corrected. His full postseason stats don't show on his HTML player card. My mistake.

[BradZ]

C Malachi Stiver is going to fall short again, maybe so short that he doesn't even stay on the ballot next year. It's a shame IMO.

He began his career in the BLB at the age of 31 and still posted a HOF Standards score of 43.

IRL an average HOFer scores a 50. The measurement is calculated by the utility using the same career achievements points based criteria that are used IRL.

He achieved that score of 43 in 5439 PA's. If you hypothetically grant him good health for his younger years he conceivably could have easily accumulated an additional 4000 PA's. Surely some projection can be taken into account when looking at what he actually accomplished and what he could have accomplished had the league been available for him to play in.

[Dave]

Surely some projection can be taken into account when looking at what he actually accomplished and what he could have accomplished had the league been available for him to play in.

I don't know why some people just refuse to do this. Especially when the first player we put in the HoF relied on some projected statistics to get in, due to his advanced age when the league began.

Are we supposed to treat this league as if it just began in 1978 and baseball didn't exist prior to that year? Or did the league (or the sport of baseball) exist prior to 1978 and we all just started owning teams then? Using the first premise, the exclusion of players like Stiver makes a little sense because their careers just weren't long enough. But if we're supposed to assume that they had a full career prior to our involvement in baseball, then this refusal to project their stats over a full career is just ridiculous.

[Lintyfresh85]

Well, that's something we need to define right now.

BTW, according to the league's written history, the BLB did exist before 1978... that's just when we took over.

So, yes, I think you have to take into account years that occurred before 1978.

Clay, can we get a ruling from you on this? Do we need to take into account years prior to 1978... or do we treat them as if they never happened?

[BradZ]

I don't know why some people just refuse to do this. Especially when the first player we put in the HoF relied on some projected statistics to get in, due to his advanced age when the league began.

Are we supposed to treat this league as if it just began in 1978 and baseball didn't exist prior to that year? Or did the league (or the sport of baseball) exist prior to 1978 and we all just started owning teams then? Using the first premise, the exclusion of players like Stiver makes a little sense because their careers just weren't long enough. But if we're supposed to assume that they had a full career prior to our involvement in baseball, then this refusal to project their stats over a full career is just ridiculous.

What's interesting to me along these lines is Chavarraga made it in last year and Stiver didn't. When all is said and done Chav's numbers are going to pale in comparison to the pitchers that come after him . . .because he started pitching at 29. Somehow we managed to look past his short career and recognize him for what he was, but we haven't done the same for someone like Stiver.

Kellum's case was a bit different in some peoples' eyes because there was a clearly defined exception at that time for Founder's Wing inductees. I don't think it's an incredible leap in reasoning to carry that same prism over when looking at players that simply didn't get their full career's worth in the BLB, distinction between classifcations or not. In my eyes, Kellum is a HOFer right next to the next people that get inducted. It's not a separate wing in my mind, simply a different set of criteria that was applied to achieve his induction.