SIM COMPLETE - 1992 - SIM 24

[Delandis]

What the hell are you talking about? What did I say about the Virginia Owner? You said "Jenkins has better stats only because he plays for the best team in the league. Winning is just as contagious as losing."

That's my point about not being able to view things based on strictly ability with a penalty for what team they play for.



Go for it. Find a 17-game or 100 inning stretch where he was better.

You said I was "eating out of the same bowl as Linty" because I said Coates was a better player with more potential than Jenkins. As if the only reason I could POSSIBLY believe Coates is a better pitcher is if I have some type of hate for Virginia? How much more praise do you need:

You said [I]"Jenkins has better stats only because he plays for the best team in the league.

I stand by that statement.

Hell, my original post had nothing to do with Gus Jenkins. I saw him, but I also saw he only pitched 100 innings. Unfortunately for Jenkins, he has great numbers but pitching just over 100 innings doesn't say much to me, and it has nothing to do any personal vendetta with Virginia.

If winning isn't contagious, how on earth does Toselli go from hitting +.300 in VA to sub .250 in Carolina? Talent drop? Maybe, but I'd guess if Toselli had still been in VA he'd still be at/near .300.

How about this: If roles were reversed: where Jenkins was on Morgantown and Coates was a Colonial do you believe that Jenkins would still be 12-2 with a 2.48 ERA? Do you believe Coates would have better numbers if he played in VA?


I do.

[Carlos]

I don't even look at OSA ratings. Hell, I barely even look at my own scout's ratings (and yes, I have a good scout). I've seen too many guys my scout loves who can't play, and I've seen too many guys that have merely "ok" ratings who just play great baseball. Sure I use the ratings as a general guide when looking for players to draft or acquire, but if a guy hasn't translated those ratings to on-field performance, then who cares what his ratings are.

Note that this would all change if there were lots of "late bloomers" in OOTP who grow into their ratings. But if a guy has already maxed out his potential ratings and he still isn't performing on the field - guess what - he's not a good player and he's probably never going to be one.

It's funny to watch teams in free agency drool all over these 5-5-5 pitchers who turn in ERAs over 5 every season. It's not like these guys are suddenly going to become good and start playing up to their ratings. Sure you can mask their shortcomings with a good defense or a big park, but these guys are what they are, as shown by their on-field performance.

The stats don't lie. I agree.


Sent from my mobile device.

[Clay]

You said I was "eating out of the same bowl as Linty" because I said Coates was better player with more potential than Jenkins. As if the only reason I could POSSIBLY believe Coates is a better pitcher is if I have some type of hate for Virginia? How much more praise do you need:



I stand by that statement.

Hell, my original post had nothing to do with Gus Jenkins. I saw him, but I also saw he only pitched 100 innings. Unfortunately for Jenkins, he has great numbers but pitching just over 100 innings doesn't say much to me, and it has nothing to do any personal vendetta with Virginia.

If winning isn't contagious, how on earth does Toselli go from hitting +.300 in VA to sub .250 in Carolina? Talent drop? Maybe, but I'd guess if Toselli still been in VA he'd still be at/near .300.

How about this: If roles were reversed: where Jenkins was on Morgantown and Coates was a Colonial do you believe that Jenkins would still be 12-2 with a 2.48 ERA? Do you believe Coates would have better numbers if he played in VA?


I do.

For the record, it was smoking from the same bowl... not eating... further evidenced by this post.

Ability is meaningless in this argument.

If Coates were 12-2 with a sub 2.50 ERA, I don't care what team he's on he'd be a better option for New Brew.

What does ability and potential matter? By that logic Mel Woodbury wins the Stout Slugger again this year simply because he's #1 on the Top Player list, right?

You said Coates was an option for New Brew.

I said Jenkins was a better option.

You launched into a misguided connection between prospect potential and tangible output.

And, in conclusion, I've been the first to say that success breeds success. Hell, I coined the whole theory 10 seasons ago with Maine. A great team makes average players above average, good players to great, etc. Maybe it's morale. Who knows. I've never argued against that.

However, in a world where you have to choose between individual/team success and stats in judging who is having a superior season.... Jenkins over Coates on both counts for the 1992 season.... they can fight it out for 3rd or 4th in New Brew voting.

[liquidcrash]

We should all just forget about Gus Jenkins and vote for Pat Gates.

Next season, we can choose between Adrian Romero, Ismael Reyes, Pete Foster or anyone else I happen to call up.

[Clay]

You could certainly go on a Dodgers-esque run with your system.

[Delandis]

Gus Jenkins > Doug Coates

Not sure how I'm supposed to understand that you meant:

Gus Jenkins stats>Doug Coates stats

from the equation above. Looks rather non-specific to me.


Plus, Gus doesn't have a cool nickname, there is no way he is better.

[umd]

Not sure how I'm supposed to understand that you meant:

Gus Jenkins stats>Doug Coates stats

from the equation above. Looks rather non-specific to me.


Plus, Gus doesn't have a cool nickname, there is no way he is better.

Stinger!

[Matt]

True. Clay always said nicknames were a tell.

[Clay]

Not sure how I'm supposed to understand that you meant:

Gus Jenkins stats>Doug Coates stats

from the equation above. Looks rather non-specific to me.


Plus, Gus doesn't have a cool nickname, there is no way he is better.

The conversation was about the New Brew race... didn't realize I had to use visual aides. I'll try harder next time.

True. Clay always said nicknames were a tell.

Stand by it.

[Matt]

We should all just forget about Gus Jenkins and vote for Pat Gates.

Next season, we can choose between Adrian Romero, Ismael Reyes, Pete Foster or anyone else I happen to call up.

I think if Gates played any other position than 1B he would be a viable candidate. I know I'm biased but considering Rojas and him are neck and neck in almost every offensive category I have to go with defense. The fact that Rojas plays CF, and is one of the best in the league...pushes him over the edge. Of course we are all biased with our own team (just look at the All-Star game rosters...zing) so we can all split the vote.

Plus just throw me a bone...you have ROTY on lock down the next 5 seasons.

[Matt]

In other Muckdogs news we have secured our 1st ever winning season for the franchise. I have been very quiet over the last month because I've been too nervous to write about our success and jinx anything, but I'm extremely proud of my team after today.

[funclown]

In other Muckdogs news we have secured our 1st ever winning season for the franchise. I have been very quiet over the last month because I've been too nervous to write about our success and jinx anything, but I'm extremely proud of my team after today.

[liquidcrash]

I think if Gates played any other position than 1B he would be a viable candidate. I know I'm biased but considering Rojas and him are neck and neck in almost every offensive category I have to go with defense. The fact that Rojas plays CF, and is one of the best in the league...pushes him over the edge. Of course we are all biased with our own team (just look at the All-Star game rosters...zing) so we can all split the vote.

Plus just throw me a bone...you have ROTY on lock down the next 5 seasons. __________________

Rojas has played this season at 26 years old. Gates is 23. Don Castor is the only 1B in the Import League having a better season than Gates.

Since May, Gates has been the clearly superior hitter.

[Clay]

In other Muckdogs news we have secured our 1st ever winning season for the franchise. I have been very quiet over the last month because I've been too nervous to write about our success and jinx anything, but I'm extremely proud of my team after today.

Not only a winning record, but likely the 4th best record in the entire BLB when all is said and done. Very impressive when you consider that you're doing it with only one bona fide Superstar (and one budding one) and arguably no true ACE.

[Matt]

Rojas has played this season at 26 years old. Gates is 23. Don Castor is the only 1B in the Import League having a better season than Gates.

Since May, Gates has been the clearly superior hitter.

I'm not sure what age or 'since May' has to do with anything! Rojas is eligible for ROTY just as much as Gates is.

Since the season started (which is what the award is based on)...Rojas is hitting .306/.378/.434 with 84 runs and 75 RBI's...plus he plays superior defense. Gates is hitting .282/.364/.487 with 71 runs and 93 RBI's.

Unless we are just going to base the award on HR's I honestly don't see the argument.