COMP PICKS

[Clay]

Help me understand this because I have been going backwards and forwards on this.

If the goal of these rules is to create a level playing feel and indirectly parity in the league, I think it achieves the exact opposite. I think it hurts teams trying to improve and does nothing to the teams that are already successful. I also feel it opens up a can of worms for the future.

I apologize for the rambling style I'm about to use... but it's how I think:

PROBLEM: The draft in OOTP is far more valuable than in the MLB, so giving away a first round pick is a HUGE price to pay to sign a player. Especially players that are short term fixes due to age.

SOLUTION?: There needs to be either a lowered compensation. Maybe start at 3rd or 4th round.

SOLUTION?: There should be an age limit on a "Protected Player". Signing a 36 year old for $15,000,000 should not cost me the same as signing a 27 year old for $15,000,000.

PROBLEM: The compensation is too black and white. It doesn't account for rent-a-players.

EXAMPLE: I sign Malachi Stiver for $20,000,000 for 1 year and forfeit the first rounder. Next year I don't extend and someone signs him and I get a #1 pick.

SOLUTION?: You should only pull compensation on a player that was originally drafted by your organization. In fact, the player should have to have been drafted by your Org AND played in a minimum number of games (say... 50) in your farm system.

That's just a few examples that I've found. My personal take is that COMP PICKS are unneccessary in this league. I think they hurt teams who are rebuilding. I think we are better off without them completely.

Just my 2 cents.

[Squint]

I agree.

I think this topic deserves a bit more attention and warrants more discussion.

My first feeling that something was a bit skewed was seeing Jistic trying his hardest to sell Windley on the boards. No one should be happy about losing a 27 year old premier catcher. Especially not a team that has been in the Championship game the past three years.

My personal feeling is that the league is still in it's infancy and the talent isn't spread out enough to award such high compensatory picks. When upper tier teams are welcoming losing the loss of some of the better players because they know they are getting better in the long run (see Stiver) then the system may be flawed.

The simple fact is that it has to hurt the team losing the FA in some way. As Clay said, because draft picks are so much more valuable in the BLB than in MLB then it's probably not right to replicate their compensatory system.

If I decide to sign Windley at $15+ million per season and a 1st round draft pick, who is actually making out in the deal and who is losing in the deal. I'd be happy as hell if I were Jistic too. Isn't this being counter-productive to the rebuilding process?

[Andrew]

You guys are killing me. We had a thread about this last week and Sully was the only person to really participate in the discussion. The rule is in place for this season. We can re-visit it next year.

[Clay]

Last week it was tough to have a take till you saw the reality of the system.

Does it help or hurt the league if the biggest FA's go unsigned because people won't pay the COMP?

[Squint]

You guys are killing me. We had a thread about this last week and Sully was the only person to really participate in the discussion. The rule is in place for this season. We can re-visit it next year.

That's completely understood. But, as I told you earlier, I had a situation come up last week and I think that thread was lost during that time.

And quite honestly, I didn't really grasp the magnitude of it until you brought it up to me on AIM yesterday.

Clay and I aren't bitching by any stretch of the imagination, rather, I think we both see the long term adverse effects this could bring.

Sorry I didn't see it earlier, but that doesn't mean it still isn't an important issue.

Remember, this is both mine and Clay's first off season. It's hard enough to get our arms around Rule V, players we have to sign, etc., and then have to try to understand how the compensation rule will work.

[liquidcrash]

There has to be something to compensate small market teams who have no choice but to let some of their best players go, simply due to the luck of the draw of budgets. I doubt Jistic wanted to see Windley go, but he might as well try to hype him up in an attempt to get a high compensation.

I would agree giving up a 1st round pick for someone you're going to have for 1 year is excessive. Unfortunately OOTP doesn't support "sandwich" picks, which would make this a lot easier. At least, as far as I can tell it doesn't.

[Squint]

Isn't it a little much to implement two fairly significant changes in the same season (financials & compensatory picks) without first seeing how one impacts the league?

I know the conversion to '07 has been a little more rough than expected, but you shouldn't take this as complaining Andrew. I think everyone is happy with the direction the league is going, but we also want what's best for all teams in the long run.

[Clay]

I understand Andrew... and, like Squint said, I'm not bitching either. I'm simply trying to grasp the whole thing and make decisions.

Mine was more of a question to help me understand and less about asking for change.

I just don't see how COMP (especially valuable comp like 1st Rounders) helps the league. I see how it helps certain teams, especially those hurt by the new financial system. But, it seems like it's going to cause a rollercoaster effect. Good teams become bad teams. Bad teams become good teams every few years. But, it feels like there will be no more building per se.

I don't know. Random rambling.

[Squint]

There has to be something to compensate small market teams who have no choice but to let some of their best players go, simply due to the luck of the draw of budgets. I doubt Jistic wanted to see Windley go, but he might as well try to hype him up in an attempt to get a high compensation.

I would agree giving up a 1st round pick for someone you're going to have for 1 year is excessive. Unfortunately OOTP doesn't support "sandwich" picks, which would make this a lot easier. At least, as far as I can tell it doesn't.

I think we all agree with some form of compensation, but we've yet to see just how good or bad the financials are going to be for each team. It seems a little bit like a knee, jerk reaction to me. Jistic has won every single year and now he gets rewarded by getting a 1st round pick without first seeing how much he's been affected?

Again, as Clay stated earlier, middle round picks may be the best way to go here since the value of the BLB draft is so much more important than the MLB draft.

In short:

1st round MLB draft pick may = 3rd or 4th round BLB draft pick.

[Andrew]

I think we all agree with some form of compensation, but we've yet to see just how good or bad the financials are going to be for each team. It seems a little bit like a knee, jerk reaction to me. Jistic has won every single year and now he gets rewarded by getting a 1st round pick without first seeing how much he's been affected?

Again, as Clay stated earlier, middle round picks may be the best way to go here since the value of the BLB draft is so much more important than the MLB draft.

In short:

1st round MLB draft pick may = 3rd or 4th round BLB draft pick.

I've done enough long term testing to see that teams like Windy City, Los Lunas, Hartford, etc are going to have a tough time competing without help. I just don't think you can have one (variable markets) without the other (draft pick compensation).

Jistic's performance thus far has nothing to do with the issue, IMO. He's not letting Windley go to FA because he wants the draft pick. He's doing so because he simply can't afford him. When a small market team is forced to let top players like Windley go, they need to be compensated.

Hartford is going to be in the same boat with Hildebrand in a couple years, Los Lunas with Guardamagni and Grandon, so on and so forth. When teams are forced to let star players go, they should be compensated with something that has the potential to equal what they're losing.

As far as the age limit, you might have a point there but it's difficult to create a cut off without knowing how the new aging algorithms are going to work.

[Squint]

Again, I completely understand, but it is frustrating as hell to see teams "luck" into their situations because of successful (blind) inaugural drafts while half of the league is mired in mediocrity. It seems like this continues their "luck" (so to speak) and almost doubles as a punishment to the bottom tier teams.

Be prepared for large market teams (such as myself) with a lot of cash to pursue big name players with expiring contracts from other teams and then let them walk the next year only to stockpile 1st round picks.

Do you have an opinion on the value of BLB picks versus MLB picks?

[Clay]

I think the most important thing here is that we just don't know how it's going to work. Again, that's why I must stress that I'm asking questions and making comments, not demanding immediate changes. If anything, I'm saying "these are the things as I see as potential issues"... we should monitor what happens as these might be good first places to look at adjustments.

Personally, I think that the age parameters and the "must be drafted by and played in farm system" things should be looked at. That would kill the "double dipping" on the same guy. Comp should only be paid on a player once (IMHO).

[Pat]

Just tell Clay to stop crying.

[Clay]

That's the thing. I have nothing to cry about. I have plenty of money. I have multiple 1st Rounders so the COMP won't hurt me. I'm just trying to understand.

[Squint]

That's the thing. I have nothing to cry about. I have plenty of money. I have multiple 1st Rounders so the COMP won't hurt me. I'm just trying to understand.

Exactly. I'm in the same situation as you Clay. I think what we are seeing is a potential long term issue here.

And I agree, the double-dipping issue should probably be priority number 1.

How does the game software handle compensatory picks?