Originally posted by chippered
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Originally posted by The Pride View PostHow to ruin a pitcher's career.
Jerry Dean - yes, that famous Jerry Dean who retired at the young age of 25 - collected the most wins for a pitcher (51) by the age of 21.
However, he also garnered the most innings pitched by the age of 21 with 705.7 IP.
The closest? Jeff Franklin of Viriginia (then with Baltimore). He amassed 662.7 IP by the age of 21. Coincidence or not, he is now 25 and has already suffered two arm injuries totaling nearly 4 months of missed action. He has also seen his numbers steadily falter.
Virginia beware. Franklin is a free agent at the end of 1988 and buyers will likely have a lot to consider before buying into him.
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Originally posted by Riverman View PostI heard somewhere that virtually all starting pitchers who became elite before the age of about 24 take serious ratings hits by the age of 27 through version 9 of the game and that that has changed with X. That has been pretty close to true for our league at least I can't think of an exception besides O'Moore and maybe Guardamagni who had one elite year before he was 24.The Great One!
To many rings to count...
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Originally posted by plasticbeast View Postwow...very nice Andrew!
The good thing is it's written in php/mysql instead of perl (which is what the old utilities were in). This means I should be able to make additions and changes as we see fit.
My first task is going to be figuring out a way to retroactively update the season metrics (namely ERA+ and OPS+).
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It could take extensive testing to figure that out, but here are some early findings.
1. First I used Wins as a barometer for success. Easiest way to measure this, I suppose. Other ways would involve much more complication (I toyed with QS, VORP, for example).
2. I took anyone that by the age of 24 had won at least 15 career games, figuring that is a good place to start for a single season of elite success.
The list generated the following:
Code:Rank Player Team Years W IP 1 Jerry Dean Ret 1978-1983 86 1286.3 2 Jeff Franklin* VIR 1980-1986 68 1058.7 3 Larry LaRochelle* PAW 1978-1980 63 713.3 4 Enas Sanchez* DAL 1978-1982 61 983.7 5 Joe Aurillo* PHI 1981-1984 57 689.7 6 Gil O'Moore* MAI 1980-1984 55 736.7 7 Joe Ponte* PAW 1978-1980 54 698.0 8 Donato Guardamagni* LOS 1978-1981 53 775.7 9 David Tardif* LAM 1982-1987 50 737.3 10 Dan Jones* HYU 1978-1980 46 668.0 11 Denver Brode* DAL 1984-1987 45 551.7 12 Ron MacLagan* LOS 1978-1981 44 603.0 13 Luis Antonio Ramrez* CHI 1984-1987 39 619.3 13 Jeremiah Wallace* HYU 1985-1987 39 520.3 15 Vidal Olbera* LAM 1978-1981 38 686.3 15 Denny Erwood* DEN 1982-1985 38 553.3 17 Tommy Lang* SYR 1980-1982 37 592.3 18 Jack Curry* HAR 1983-1987 36 578.7 19 Hermosa Cobellen Ret 1978-1980 35 476.3 20 Orlan Coronda* BAT 1984-1987 32 646.7 20 Nate Magness* VIR 1984-1986 32 532.7 22 Akira Abe* IND 1978-1980 31 578.0 23 Mohamed Makungu* WIL 1984-1987 30 533.3 24 Bryan Foxworth* FA 1978-1980 29 501.7 24 Chavez Manga Ret 1978-1980 29 422.0 24 Manuel Puerias* MIS 1978-1980 29 417.7 27 Chuck Chance Ret 1978-1981 28 594.3 27 Delmar Oyos* VIR 1981-1984 28 555.0 29 John Crittall Ret 1978-1980 27 392.3 29 Gervasio Dealba* LOS 1978-1979 27 434.3 29 Dave Sievewright* PHI 1982-1985 27 472.0 32 Dan Hoskin* FA 1982-1984 26 409.0 33 Joe Zazueto* WAS 1986-1987 24 344.0 34 Brad Taylor* HYU 1980-1982 23 356.0 34 Erasmo Rubancava* HYU 1982-1984 23 402.7 36 Russ McEvoy* WAS 1978-1978 22 250.7 36 Sal Soriano* FA 1982-1983 22 275.0 36 Don Stevens* SYR 1983-1987 22 528.7 39 Tino Surez* MAI 1985-1987 21 264.0 39 Shawn Gates* CAR 1986-1987 21 367.0 39 Jerry Sizemore* DAV 1986-1987 21 318.0 42 Marco Rubia* MOR 1978-1980 20 450.3 43 Joe Orozco* FA 1978-1979 19 372.7 43 Joe Soto Ret 1978-1981 19 355.3 43 Elijah Combs* HAR 1985-1987 19 294.3 46 Tessai MacArthur* SYR 1981-1985 18 400.7 46 Mac Avery* IND 1985-1986 18 285.7 48 Nathan MacOwl* PHI 1978-1978 17 222.7 48 Curt Goodwin* PIT 1983-1987 17 395.3 48 Victoro Daz* CAL 1985-1987 17 229.7 51 Rico Colet Ret 1978-1979 16 284.0 51 Alonzo Gugierrez* WIL 1978-1978 16 228.7 51 Charlie Lanham* FA 1978-1979 16 246.3 51 Adam McCarthy* LOS 1978-1979 16 321.3 51 Barto Ramairez* LAM 1980-1981 16 337.0 51 Chuck Lindsey* HAR 1986-1987 16 232.7 51 Conan Wilkerson* CAL 1987-1987 16 190.7 58 Joe Soto* BAL 1978-1978 15 235.7 58 Juan Urrego* BAT 1978-1978 15 193.7
3. I then went through the list of players and looked at their history. Here is the breakdown of the top 10.
1 Jerry Dean
Enjoyed 4 successful All-Star seasons by 23. After 24, won 6 career games. Plagued by back spasms, he retired shortly after.
2 Jeff Franklin*
After his rookie season had 2 All-Star appearances and an ERA under 3.00 for 4 straight years. Missed two months at age of 24, finished with an ERA above 5.00 for first time since rookie season and recently completed a 5-10, 4.20 season at 25 years of age.
3 Larry LaRochelle*
Two All-Star seasons out of the gate with ERAs under 3.00. By the age of 25, saw his ERA creep past 3.00 into 4.00 and above. Breakdown by team: w/Dav 2.33 ERA, w/LAM 3.68 ERA, w/SYR 4.44 ERA, w/PAW 3.88 ERA.
4 Enas Sanchez*
The most confusing this early in the list. By 23, appeared in 2 All-Star Games for Dallas. By 24, his ERA would steadily hover above 4.00 despite having two successful years between those seasons. Most recently had a 3.11 ERA at 28, but followed up with a 12-13, 4.28 season at 29.
5 Joe Aurillo*
Threw over 200 Innings at 22, but at 27, continues to be dominant despite only having made two All-Star teams in 7 seasons.
6 Gil O'Moore*
Similar to Aurillo, continues to be dominant at 27. Threw first 200 Inning season at 26.
7 Joe Ponte*
Before 26, enjoyed three straight all-star seasons with an ERA no higher than 2.17. Ages 27-28 were the highest combined back-to-back years in ERA.
8 Donato Guardamagni*
Threw first 200 inning season at 22 and despite a minor hiccup at 23 (3.81 ERA), has continued to be a dominant pitcher with 7 straight seasons of ERAs under 3.00.
9 David Tardif*
Still early (currently 23), has avoided a 200 inning season with much success in his first two full years. Missed all of his 21st birthday with a strained shoulder and despite still being a good pitcher, has not struck out 100 men since.
10 Dan Jones*
For the most part, consistent throughout his career. Had two dominant seasons at 23 and 24 with ERAs of 3.05 and 3.09 respectively. From 25-27, ERA rose from 3.52 to 3.61 and 3.96. Did return to form at his prime with an ERA of 3.12 at 28 and 29 years of age.
I will go on later if necessary. So far, it seems that 7 of the 10 guys did see their performance suffer by 27. Some guys in the top 10 righted themselves, which is good news.
Hard to really say, though, what that means. If you told me that of 10 pitching prospects, only 3 would be dominant pitchers, I'd probably want to hug you. Of the 10, only one had his career cut short (the most abused, by the way). The other 6 are still at the very least, serviceable pitchers.
My professional opinion (yea, I said that) would be to worry about Jeff Franklin and David Tardiff.
Tardiff has somehow managed to become an extremely good control pitcher, but you can see how losing his velocity has negatively affected him. Before his injury he gave up 15 career homeruns over 3 seasons. He gave up that many in each of the past two seasons.
*Still active.Last edited by Carlos; 08-31-2009, 04:44 PM.Denver Bulls
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Originally posted by Andrew View PostJust for the record, I didn't create this. Just installed it.
The good thing is it's written in php/mysql instead of perl (which is what the old utilities were in). This means I should be able to make additions and changes as we see fit.
My first task is going to be figuring out a way to retroactively update the season metrics (namely ERA+ and OPS+).
Also love to implement the logos I made for the awards into the Awards section.
The IL and DL logos.
All cosmetic stuff... but... that's me.The Great One!
To many rings to count...
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Originally posted by Clay View PostI would love to see an addition where we could implement those banners that Pride (I believe it was Pride) did.
Also love to implement the logos I made for the awards into the Awards section.
The IL and DL logos.
All cosmetic stuff... but... that's me.
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