*Import League 10th Anniversary - Starting Pitchers*

[Clay]

So, you're politely saying that MacOwl took a bit of blame for those early year Windy City failures?

Well... I'm not in a position to speak for the committee... but I don't see MacOwl as a blame for the early failures. Quite the opposite. I see those early WC years a lot like the 90's Braves. I think MacOwl was the slightly over-shadowed. I think you had your Theodore and McEvoy tandem kind of like your Maddux and Smoltz... but MacOwl wasn't even necessarily the Glavine... because I think Vernon Simmonds was actually the 3rd biggest name during those glory days. Fair or unfair, I think MacOwl got lost in the shuffle a little on a Pitching Staff unlike anything this league will likely see again.

The committee can pick and choose whatever criteria they choose. This list is obviously unscientific. Leader board matters but how much? Championships matter except for a guy like McEvoy who has none. Career leader boards matter how much? And for what stats? All star games?

I'm sure there will lots of disagreements. Glad I could kick it off.

That's exactly the point. It's not supposed to be scientific.

[BradleyB]

I'm sure there will lots of disagreements. Glad I could kick it off.

I'm convinced you guys would fight over the color of an orange. Especially if the orange was fictional and produced by a random number generator.

[Lintyfresh85]

I hate to say this... but Clay, you're a genius.

These threads should create hours of entertainment.

[Clay]

I'm convinced you guys would fight over the color of an orange. Especially if the orange was fictional and produced by a random number generator.

Are you saying it's not????

[Clay]

I hate to say this... but Clay, you're a genius.

These threads should create hours of entertainment.

Just wait till we release the peephole video of Nic Arce

[Riverman]

If I were on that committee, of course I would have voted for Gonzalez without even looking at the stats.

But, for the sake of argument, say McOwl had never played for WC and I wanted to be objective. I look at the stats of those two players and I can't for the life of me figure out why Gonzalez has almost 85 points of additional career VORP. They are very close in most of the stats except Gonzalez has displayed much better control - 274 career BBs vs 498 with both having pitched almost the same number of innings. It doesn't seem like that stat should count for anything close to that big a difference in VORP.

I wonder if there is some kind of home-ball-park-effects adjustment included in VORP and WC has a pitcher's park, while Washington's is a hitter's park.

[Clay]

I wonder if there is some kind of home-ball-park-effects adjustment included in VORP and WC has a pitcher's park, while Washington's is a hitter's park.

Hmmmm... what about the team? Since VORP is Value Over Replacement Player... is there a chance that is has a weighted factor against ones own team? So, a Pitcher on a great staff could actually be penalized for it?

Grasping at straws.

[BradZ]

If I were on that committee, of course I would have voted for Gonzalez without even looking at the stats.

But, for the sake of argument, say McOwl had never played for WC and I wanted to be objective. I look at the stats of those two players and I can't for the life of me figure out why Gonzalez has almost 85 points of additional career VORP. They are very close in most of the stats except Gonzalez has displayed much better control - 274 career BBs vs 498 with both having pitched almost the same number of innings. It doesn't seem like that stat should count for anything close to that big a difference in VORP.

I wonder if there is some kind of home-ball-park-effects adjustment included in VORP and WC has a pitcher's park, while Washington's is a hitter's park.

I believe IRL the RAvg that is used in calculating pitcher VORP is adjusted for park effects.

[Pat]

Significant? Really? 1.02 to 1.12?

You don't see .10 as a significant difference in WHIP?

I think the BLB Championship Ring is the tie-breaker.

[BradZ]

Here we go from the ever dependable Wikipedia:

Baseball Prospectus 2002 published the current formula for determining the replacement level for pitchers:

For starting pitchers, Repl. Level = 1.37 * League RA - 0.66
For relief pitchers, Repl. Level = 1.70 * League RA - 2.27
Therefore, the current formula for VORP is:

VORP = ((Repl. Level - RAvg)/9)*Innings Pitched
As was the case with hitters, run average should be normalized for park effects before VORP is calculated. Pitcher VORP is on the same scale as that of hitters.

[Riverman]

I'm pretty sure that the replacement player included in VORP is generic for all teams. I'd say that if WC has a better pitcher's park the Washington the mystery will be solved. Is there a way to check for that on this site?

[Jake]

I have to say it's nice to have something to read and I enjoy the discussion but anyone who puts any real stock in these teams (of which we have no clue of any real criteria or who they are coming from) is probably from the same group of idiots that actually cared that precious little Tim Tebow didn't get all the first place votes for preseason ALL-SEC.

[Andrew]

The park factors in the game are the following. I'm not sure if that's how they actually played or not. A new utility set that I'm going to install shows this info but it's not available yet.

Washington:
.990 BA
.960 HR
1.100 2B
1.070 3B

Windy City:
.864 BA
.889 HR
1.072 2B
1.143 3B

[Riverman]

The park factors in the game are the following. I'm not sure if that's how they actually played or not. A new utility set that I'm going to install shows this info but it's not available yet.

Washington:
.990 BA
.960 HR
1.100 2B
1.070 3B

Windy City:
.864 BA
.889 HR
1.072 2B
1.143 3B

Thanks Andrew,

To me that makes it absolutely clear than Gonzo deserved to win it and that the WC pitching has been way way overrated. The comittee should probably take a closer look at Theodore and McEvoy with this new information in mind and see if they can't come up with suitable replacements.

[Clay]

Thanks Andrew,

To me that makes it absolutely clear than Gonzo deserved to win it and that the WC pitching has been way way overrated. The comittee should probably take a closer look at Theodore and McEvoy with this new information in mind and see if they can't come up with suitable replacements.

The Committee will be contacted and the most likely replacements will be Nate Magness and Pancho Herrera.