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Hey guys. I don't want to step on anyone's toes since this was not originally brought up by me (I think Clay first brought it to the forums attention), but I haven't heard anything about it since it was first brought up and I think it's a great idea, I've been thinking a lot about it, and would love to head it up and get it organized. I'm also avoiding any real work I'm supposed to be doing. I'm talking, of course, about laying some monopoly money and marlboro bucks down on the BLB.
I think the number one key is to make the "game" as fair as possible for the entire league. That eliminates flat fees to buy in (eg 5 bucks a piece). I've come up with a "weighted" system that I think works out really well which I get into below. I also ran through some examples which are also below. If anyone can come up with a better way to rank the teams other than the previous season's records, post it here.
Of course, just like the rule changes, please criticize or find holes or just plain tell me I'm stupid. Anyways, here we go.
OVERVIEW: The basic premise is that whoever wants to put money up can. And whoever doesn't, doesn't have to. If a team buys into the championship pool, and they win, they win the entire pool. If a team that does not buy in wins the BLB, the pool carries over to the next season.
DEADLINES: I was thinking we could do this one of two different ways. Either a no nonsense deadline (e.g. 8 pm of Opening Day). If the money isn't paypal'd to me by that time, oh well. Or, I was thinking we could do a late fee. Something like... you can buy in for the normal fee before 8 p.m. on Opening Day, or for $1 dollar more, you can buy in after the first sim but no later than 8 p.m. on the day of the second sim of the season. This would put a little more cash in the pot (maybe) and might get a few more guys in who have a good first week. I guess for that matter, it might get a few less guys who have a bad first week. Anyways, feedback please.
BUY INS: The money each team would have to put up would be determined by previous years results. The two teams who played for the BLB championship would be automatically ranked 1 and 2; spots 3-24 would be determined by overall record. The buy ins listed below are set up to be "top heavy" and "bottom light," so that the worst teams get the best odds and vice versa. For now, I have it set up from $1-$12 dollars, although I'm sure some people would like that to be more. It would be easy to redo the numbers to go from $1-$25, or $5-$35, or whatever you guys wanted to pay. Here is how the teams would be ranked, with buy in, for the 1986 season.
24th (MIS): $1
23rd (DAV): $2
22nd (LA): $2
21st (DEN): $2
20th (CAL): $3
19th (HAR): $3
18th (SIN): $4
17th (PAW): $4
16th (MOR): $4
15th (SYR): $5
14th (HYU): $5
13th (DAL): $6
12th (TIE: WC): $6.50 (Normally 6)
11th (TIE: BAL): $6.50 (Normally 7)
10th (BAT): $7
9th (VIR): $8
8th (LOS): $8
7th (PHI): $9
6th (IND): $9
5th (WAS): $10
4th (WIL): $10
3rd (PIT): $10
2nd (CAR): $11 (BLB runner up)
1st (MAI): $12 (BLB Champion)
TIE-BREAKERS:Tiebreaker is Pythagorean record. If the Pythagorean records are also even, the teams tied split the total of the spots(as it happened between Windy City and Baltimore in 1985).
CHAMPION DISCLAIMER: When someone wins the BLB and the pool, their entrance to the pool for the next season is automatically deducted out of their winnings to "get the pool rolling." (Example: Maine wins the $148 dollar pool in 1985. Andrew gets $136 dollars and the other $12 goes into the 1986 pool.)
MATH/EXAMPLES: If everyone bought into the pool with a zero balance to start, there would be $148 in the prize pool. I'm sure that not everyone will want to participate, but for the first example let's assume everyone does. I should also mention that when I say "odds," I just mean the payout you'll get on your money if you win the BLB.
Total pool: $148
Random Teams Odds:
Mississippi: 148/1
Denver: 74/1
Pawtucket: 37/1
Dallas: 24.6/1
Los Lunas: 18.5/1
Washington: 14.5/1
Maine: 12.33/1
Ok. I think those numbers work out great. The most expensive buy in - Maine - still gets 12.33/1 odds. In real life, we all know Maine is more like 5/2 to win every year. So it still makes financial sense for teams like Washington (14.5/1) to buy in. On the other hand, Mississippi gets 148/1 odds. That also is high (or maybe low... sorry spectre), but I would think that at only 1 dollar for the 24th place team, it's a fair way to get into the pool. And I think every team can say they're getting great value for their money. Feedback?
Alright, example 2. Only some teams buy in, and they are mostly the cheaper buy ins: (DEN-2, DAV-2, HAR-3, CAL-3, MOR-4, PAW-4, SYR-5, DAL-6, WC-6.5, IND-9, WASH-10, MAI-12). Total cash = 66.50
Appx. Odds:
DEN 33/1
HAR 22/1
MOR 16.6/1
SYR 13/1
IND 7.3/1
WAS 6.6/1
MAI 5.5/1
Example 3 (Mostly high buy-in teams)
(MIS-1, CAL-3, PAW-4, SIN-4, HYU-5, DAL-6, BAT-7, LOS-8, VIR-8, PHI-9, WAS-10, PIT-10, CAR-11, MAI-12). Total = 88
Appx. Odds:
MIS 88/1
CAL 29/1
PAW 22/1
HYU 17.6/1
BAT 12.5/1
VIR 11/1
PHI 9.7/1
PIT 8.8/1
CAR 8/1
MAI 7.3/1
Those two examples obviously do not provide the same "value" that you get when everyone plays. However, I don't think that they're neccessarily terrible by any means. In addition, the chance of the pool "rolling over" increase and the next season those odds could be doubled. But any feedback or ideas on how to handle pools that are not full is definately appreciated.
ROLLOVER: In the event that a team who did not participate in the pool wins the BLB championship, I think there are four options:
Option 1: The entire pool rolls over to the next season.
Option 2: Of the teams that bought in, the highest finishing team wins the entire pool.
Option 3: Of the teams that bought in, the highest finishing team gets their money back. The rest of the pool rolls over.
Option 4 (my favorite): Of the teams that bought in, the highest finishing team gets double their buy in back. The rest of the pool rolls over. In example 3, if Carolina finished with the best record, they would get $22 back and $72 would roll over for the next season.
Alright. Back to reality. If you all could, respond with the following things:
1) Would you participate in something like this?
2) What is the range of buy ins you think is appropriate (e.g. $1-$12)?
3) Any criticisms, comments, what you like, don't like, etc.
4) Your thoughts on pools that roll over (or not rollover depending on what you think).
Thanks guys.
also - I put this in the main BLB forum because I thought it would get the most traffic, but if it needs to be moved I'm sorry for the inconvienence.
I think the number one key is to make the "game" as fair as possible for the entire league. That eliminates flat fees to buy in (eg 5 bucks a piece). I've come up with a "weighted" system that I think works out really well which I get into below. I also ran through some examples which are also below. If anyone can come up with a better way to rank the teams other than the previous season's records, post it here.
Of course, just like the rule changes, please criticize or find holes or just plain tell me I'm stupid. Anyways, here we go.
OVERVIEW: The basic premise is that whoever wants to put money up can. And whoever doesn't, doesn't have to. If a team buys into the championship pool, and they win, they win the entire pool. If a team that does not buy in wins the BLB, the pool carries over to the next season.
DEADLINES: I was thinking we could do this one of two different ways. Either a no nonsense deadline (e.g. 8 pm of Opening Day). If the money isn't paypal'd to me by that time, oh well. Or, I was thinking we could do a late fee. Something like... you can buy in for the normal fee before 8 p.m. on Opening Day, or for $1 dollar more, you can buy in after the first sim but no later than 8 p.m. on the day of the second sim of the season. This would put a little more cash in the pot (maybe) and might get a few more guys in who have a good first week. I guess for that matter, it might get a few less guys who have a bad first week. Anyways, feedback please.
BUY INS: The money each team would have to put up would be determined by previous years results. The two teams who played for the BLB championship would be automatically ranked 1 and 2; spots 3-24 would be determined by overall record. The buy ins listed below are set up to be "top heavy" and "bottom light," so that the worst teams get the best odds and vice versa. For now, I have it set up from $1-$12 dollars, although I'm sure some people would like that to be more. It would be easy to redo the numbers to go from $1-$25, or $5-$35, or whatever you guys wanted to pay. Here is how the teams would be ranked, with buy in, for the 1986 season.
24th (MIS): $1
23rd (DAV): $2
22nd (LA): $2
21st (DEN): $2
20th (CAL): $3
19th (HAR): $3
18th (SIN): $4
17th (PAW): $4
16th (MOR): $4
15th (SYR): $5
14th (HYU): $5
13th (DAL): $6
12th (TIE: WC): $6.50 (Normally 6)
11th (TIE: BAL): $6.50 (Normally 7)
10th (BAT): $7
9th (VIR): $8
8th (LOS): $8
7th (PHI): $9
6th (IND): $9
5th (WAS): $10
4th (WIL): $10
3rd (PIT): $10
2nd (CAR): $11 (BLB runner up)
1st (MAI): $12 (BLB Champion)
TIE-BREAKERS:Tiebreaker is Pythagorean record. If the Pythagorean records are also even, the teams tied split the total of the spots(as it happened between Windy City and Baltimore in 1985).
CHAMPION DISCLAIMER: When someone wins the BLB and the pool, their entrance to the pool for the next season is automatically deducted out of their winnings to "get the pool rolling." (Example: Maine wins the $148 dollar pool in 1985. Andrew gets $136 dollars and the other $12 goes into the 1986 pool.)
MATH/EXAMPLES: If everyone bought into the pool with a zero balance to start, there would be $148 in the prize pool. I'm sure that not everyone will want to participate, but for the first example let's assume everyone does. I should also mention that when I say "odds," I just mean the payout you'll get on your money if you win the BLB.
Total pool: $148
Random Teams Odds:
Mississippi: 148/1
Denver: 74/1
Pawtucket: 37/1
Dallas: 24.6/1
Los Lunas: 18.5/1
Washington: 14.5/1
Maine: 12.33/1
Ok. I think those numbers work out great. The most expensive buy in - Maine - still gets 12.33/1 odds. In real life, we all know Maine is more like 5/2 to win every year. So it still makes financial sense for teams like Washington (14.5/1) to buy in. On the other hand, Mississippi gets 148/1 odds. That also is high (or maybe low... sorry spectre), but I would think that at only 1 dollar for the 24th place team, it's a fair way to get into the pool. And I think every team can say they're getting great value for their money. Feedback?
Alright, example 2. Only some teams buy in, and they are mostly the cheaper buy ins: (DEN-2, DAV-2, HAR-3, CAL-3, MOR-4, PAW-4, SYR-5, DAL-6, WC-6.5, IND-9, WASH-10, MAI-12). Total cash = 66.50
Appx. Odds:
DEN 33/1
HAR 22/1
MOR 16.6/1
SYR 13/1
IND 7.3/1
WAS 6.6/1
MAI 5.5/1
Example 3 (Mostly high buy-in teams)
(MIS-1, CAL-3, PAW-4, SIN-4, HYU-5, DAL-6, BAT-7, LOS-8, VIR-8, PHI-9, WAS-10, PIT-10, CAR-11, MAI-12). Total = 88
Appx. Odds:
MIS 88/1
CAL 29/1
PAW 22/1
HYU 17.6/1
BAT 12.5/1
VIR 11/1
PHI 9.7/1
PIT 8.8/1
CAR 8/1
MAI 7.3/1
Those two examples obviously do not provide the same "value" that you get when everyone plays. However, I don't think that they're neccessarily terrible by any means. In addition, the chance of the pool "rolling over" increase and the next season those odds could be doubled. But any feedback or ideas on how to handle pools that are not full is definately appreciated.
ROLLOVER: In the event that a team who did not participate in the pool wins the BLB championship, I think there are four options:
Option 1: The entire pool rolls over to the next season.
Option 2: Of the teams that bought in, the highest finishing team wins the entire pool.
Option 3: Of the teams that bought in, the highest finishing team gets their money back. The rest of the pool rolls over.
Option 4 (my favorite): Of the teams that bought in, the highest finishing team gets double their buy in back. The rest of the pool rolls over. In example 3, if Carolina finished with the best record, they would get $22 back and $72 would roll over for the next season.
Alright. Back to reality. If you all could, respond with the following things:
1) Would you participate in something like this?
2) What is the range of buy ins you think is appropriate (e.g. $1-$12)?
3) Any criticisms, comments, what you like, don't like, etc.
4) Your thoughts on pools that roll over (or not rollover depending on what you think).
Thanks guys.
also - I put this in the main BLB forum because I thought it would get the most traffic, but if it needs to be moved I'm sorry for the inconvienence.
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