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Pulling back the curtain... endurance HAS changed

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  • Pulling back the curtain... endurance HAS changed

    And since no one seems interested in this big reveal... I figure I'll just give it away anyways.

    As many of you may have known... for as long as RP have been in OOTP... they have a problem with... endurance. Anything under a '5' endurance was shunned to the bullpen as most pitchers under that mythical 5 endurance couldn't put up more than 50 pitches in an outing... well my friends... with the release of OOTP 9, Markus has completely re-wrote how endurance works for pitchers.

    And I'm here to tell you, regardless of what your pitcher is in endurance... they ALL can now throw 80 pitches in an outing.

    This is HUGE news. And i'm not sure why this hasn't been talked about... or discovered until now.

    I accidentally discovered this while messing with RP's in a test league with the base Major League rosters.

    Now... to show that I'm not making this up... I've been taking screen caps to show my findings.

    Prospect A: Jose Vallejo

    I basically created this guy to see what would happen... I set his endurance to a 10/250... as to give him a true '2' in endurance... I then maxed all of his ratings to 250 as to give him a chance to reach his true pitch limit.

    What I've found is... regardless of how well Vallejo pitches, he hits a 'wall' at 80 or so pitches... sometimes he'll throw 75, sometimes he'll throw 90... but it in the end... he averages out at 81 pitches a game.

    Of note... he threw two 100 pitches efforts, and two 90 pitch efforts.

    He averaged about 5.5 innings per start.

    Here are two screen cap of Vallejo:




    Prospect B: Esteban Chavarria

    This guy, I followed the same process as Vallejo but instead I made sure he was a '3' in endurance. The results become even more promising!

    Chavarria averaged 87 pitches per start.... as well as 6.13 innings per start.

    What's more encouraging is that Chavarria kept his K rate strong throughout finishing with 208 K's in 202 innings.

    He threw two 100 pitch games and 17 90 pitch games which is a huge improvement over Vallejo.

    His highest pitch count was 120 pitches.

    Here are two screen caps of Chavarria:





    Prospect C: Wilson Montoya

    For my last test, I went through the same steps as with Chavarria and Vallejo but this time I chose a pitcher with '4' endurance.

    For Montoya, he averaged 92 pitches a start and a solid 6.4 innings per start.

    He threw four 100 pitch games and 18 90 pitch games.

    His highest pitch count was 145 pitches (complete game)

    His K rate was an outstanding 1.17 which is amazing when you consider he threw nearly 200 innings. (He's not wearing down in later innings)

    Here are two screen caps of Montoya:







    So, what does all this data mean? It means, no longer does a RP have to stay a RP because they can only throw 20-30 pitches a contest... with OOTP9 it appears as if endurance has been rewritten so that any pitcher can now reach 80 pitches in a game, regardless of their endurance level... something I whole heartedly agree with.

    Hopefully you guys can use this information to your advantage.
    California Kodiaks - GM - 1982-2013
    Brewmaster's Cups: 1987
    Import League Champions: 1987, 1989
    Porter Division Champions:
    1986, 1987, 1989, 1999
    , 2000
    Import League Wild Card: 2001, 2003, 2004

  • #2
    Three observations I forgot to mention in my post...

    1. Endurance does NOT progress through the years for a pitcher... through all the test, the most endurance points gained by a pitcher was six, out of 250. Thus.... there's no 'stretching out' a pitcher to make them a starter. They have their pitch limit... and unless they're right on the border of a higher or lower endurance, it's never going to change.

    2. RP's that start tend to get seriously hurt at a much higher rate. In the eight or nine test I ran, I had three players become seriously injured, two ended up with a torn bicep, and another blew out their elbow... so use this strategy with caution.

    3. The lower the endurance, the longer it takes in between starts for the RP to come back 100% rested. Pretty obvious, but worth noting none the less.
    California Kodiaks - GM - 1982-2013
    Brewmaster's Cups: 1987
    Import League Champions: 1987, 1989
    Porter Division Champions:
    1986, 1987, 1989, 1999
    , 2000
    Import League Wild Card: 2001, 2003, 2004

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    • #3
      Did you test these same players but in a seperate file with them listed as SP instead of RP?
      Wilmington Wildcats- 2057-
      Seattle Pilots- 2017-2041
      Washington Bats - 1979-2013

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      • #4
        Yep... it all comes out about the same.
        California Kodiaks - GM - 1982-2013
        Brewmaster's Cups: 1987
        Import League Champions: 1987, 1989
        Porter Division Champions:
        1986, 1987, 1989, 1999
        , 2000
        Import League Wild Card: 2001, 2003, 2004

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        • #5
          So I can make my better relievers starting pitchers and my crappy starters relievers and be a better pitching team?

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          • #6
            I didn't say that.

            I just said all pitchers can now throw 80 pitches a game. Something they couldn't do in past versions.

            Nothing more, nothing less.

            But, for the record... I'm going to give this a one sim test run to see how one of my '3' RP respond to a starting roll.
            Last edited by Lintyfresh85; 12-23-2008, 03:50 AM.
            California Kodiaks - GM - 1982-2013
            Brewmaster's Cups: 1987
            Import League Champions: 1987, 1989
            Porter Division Champions:
            1986, 1987, 1989, 1999
            , 2000
            Import League Wild Card: 2001, 2003, 2004

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            • #7
              Is this news?

              I thought you could always do this.

              I have a guy in AA Colm Kincade been doing this, 3 endurance and throwing up to 90 pitches. Now he's out for 7 months.

              It's not advisable, but doable. But I think it always has been, or at least it used to a few versions ago.
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              Originally posted by fsquid
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              • #8
                Really? Then disregard the whole thread... thought I stumbled upon something new!
                California Kodiaks - GM - 1982-2013
                Brewmaster's Cups: 1987
                Import League Champions: 1987, 1989
                Porter Division Champions:
                1986, 1987, 1989, 1999
                , 2000
                Import League Wild Card: 2001, 2003, 2004

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                • #9
                  First of all, I see that you are a much nicer guy than I am, Linty, so thanks for putting this out there.

                  I thought there could be something going on along these lines because the first sim of the year, I screwed up my export and one of my relievers ended up starting. He had a three endurance, yet he pitched great through 6 innings as I recall and only got into trouble in the 7th. I knew in the old game relievers with that endurance could only go about 3 innings
                  if that, so I was very surprised. I had it in the back of my mind to test later if I could get the same guy to pitch well for that long again but I never got around to it.

                  I don't know about Jistic's point about these guys being especially subject to injury. I suppose it makes sense since there would be no point to giving pithcers twos or threes for endurance if they could pitch that long without penalty.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks... I knew I wasn't crazy... RP's used to be able to only go about 2-3 innings... I was positive Markus had changed it... but Jistic's post had me doubting that fact.
                    California Kodiaks - GM - 1982-2013
                    Brewmaster's Cups: 1987
                    Import League Champions: 1987, 1989
                    Porter Division Champions:
                    1986, 1987, 1989, 1999
                    , 2000
                    Import League Wild Card: 2001, 2003, 2004

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                    • #11
                      I do still think there is some type of limiter though.

                      My 2nd Rounder this season (Jayson McQueen) I reached for partially because my Scout had him as a 5 endurance (SISA has him a 4). I gave him two starts. He was very good in both of them, but got pulled right around 50 pitches in both cases. I set him limit to 99, but he still got yanked.
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                      • #12
                        Oh and for the record...I'm pretty sure this is old news. I appreciate the effort though Linty. Love learning more about the game.

                        But I'm pretty sure people were talking about this when it was released.
                        Wilmington Wildcats- 2057-
                        Seattle Pilots- 2017-2041
                        Washington Bats - 1979-2013

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                        • #13
                          I don't think anyone mentioned it here though and a lot of us do not follow the company forum very closely.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Riverman View Post
                            I don't think anyone mentioned it here though and a lot of us do not follow the company forum very closely.
                            I don't follow the company forums at all really...

                            I probably just didn't post anything about it for an unfair advantage...The Diesel Way.
                            Wilmington Wildcats- 2057-
                            Seattle Pilots- 2017-2041
                            Washington Bats - 1979-2013

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Clay View Post
                              I do still think there is some type of limiter though.

                              My 2nd Rounder this season (Jayson McQueen) I reached for partially because my Scout had him as a 5 endurance (SISA has him a 4). I gave him two starts. He was very good in both of them, but got pulled right around 50 pitches in both cases. I set him limit to 99, but he still got yanked.
                              See, I thought that was the case with our league as well... except I ran out of starters in A Ball and put in a kid with '4' endurance who I drafted... here is what he's done so far...

                              Tynan Brown

                              Game 1: 7IP, 101 pitches
                              Game 2: 5.1IP, 99 pitches
                              Game 3: 7IP, 102 pitches
                              Game 4: 8IP, 98 pitches
                              Game 5: 1.1IP, 43 pitches
                              Game 6: 5IP, 103 pitches

                              So it appears as if he isn't held back... Not sure what the deal is.
                              California Kodiaks - GM - 1982-2013
                              Brewmaster's Cups: 1987
                              Import League Champions: 1987, 1989
                              Porter Division Champions:
                              1986, 1987, 1989, 1999
                              , 2000
                              Import League Wild Card: 2001, 2003, 2004

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