1984 All-Star Game Voting

[Clay]

I see only 18 votes in... tisk tisk... there are people who are begging for a marathon IM session with Diesel.

***

I do have a serious proposal for "punishment" for non-voters for ASG or Post-Season. If not a separate fine, I think for sure they should forfeit any bonus money earned from that event. So, if you have 2 AllStars, but you didn't vote, you don't get paid for them.

[Andrew]

I do have a serious proposal for "punishment" for non-voters for ASG or Post-Season. If not a separate fine, I think for sure they should forfeit any bonus money earned from that event. So, if you have 2 AllStars, but you didn't vote, you don't get paid for them.

Exactly the punishment I was going to suggest. I guess I better vote.

[Pat]

1984 IL All-Stars

Batters
C Jerry Fontin Was
1B Dani Alvarez Wil
2B Wilton Harcourt Vir
3B Graham Tandy Bal
SS Joe Dealaruz Wil
OF Nick Latham Bal
OF Dave Robbins Dav
OF Cesaro Campovere Wil
---
C Harry Elliot Dav
1B Glen Reagan Mor
2B R.A. Grounds Was
SS Dale O'Hegarty Vir
3B Vincent Nino Car
OF Pancho Velastegui LAM
OF Angelo Opio Car



Pitchers
SP Joe Aurillo Phi
SP Joe Chavaraga Was
SP Dunmore Theodore Chi
RP Jon Cleary Mor
RP Casimiro Cabezas Car
RP Wayne van Slyke LAM
---
SP Ezquiel Parongao Car
SP Eleis Vizcarra Cal
RP Zhi-qiang Ba Car
RP Tim Pardue Dav
RP Vernon Simmonds WC
RP Brian Hanrahan BAL
RP Joe Jaureguy Bat

[spot]

I need to disagree with the selection of Vizcarra as a SP over Pateshall. His numbers are appealing but he has started 9 of 23 games. He only has pitched 80 innings as well. If you say that the 10 best pitchers are selected then I'm fine but I voted for 5 and 5 and Vizcarra shouldn't be a starter.

[Lintyfresh85]

Spot... I don't understand where you are coming from? Vizcarra was the 5th highest vote getter for SP in the IL by a wide margin... So of course he's going to make the team.

What exactly are you disputing? That people who voted for him are wrong? Or that even though he was voted in, he should not be allowed to go?

[Pat]

I need to disagree with the selection of Vizcarra as a SP over Pateshall. His numbers are appealing but he has started 9 of 23 games. He only has pitched 80 innings as well. If you say that the 10 best pitchers are selected then I'm fine but I voted for 5 and 5 and Vizcarra shouldn't be a starter.

I completely disagree. He started the year in the bullpen, and was having a solid year, but what he has done as a starter is what has been impressive. In all likeliness, had he never became a starter, he probably wouldn't be an All-Star.

Look at his numbers as a SP. He has given up 2 ER or less in every start except one, in which he gave up 4. His ERA has actually gotten better since becoming a starting pitcher. It is also worth noting that he is 5-2 (also 1 save), despite being on one of the worst teams in the entire BLB.

You say he has "only pitched 80 innings", well, Pateshall has only pitched in 94, and he has been starting the whole season.

[spot]

I don't necessarily think that Pateshall is the guy on the outside looking in. There may be more deserving starters out there but my contention is Vizcarra being voted in as a starter. Yes Pateshall only has 94 IP but he has only made 16 appearances, all of which have been starts. Vizcarra has only started his last 9 appearances after appearing 14 times prior to that in relief which amounts to 3.5 innings per appearance. No question he should be there but I just disagree that he has logged enough time as a starter to be selected as one. The league leaders in the category range between 16-20 starts. As Clay would say, I'm not sayin'... I'm just sayin'...

[Pat]

Has he logged enough time as a RP to be selected as one?

[Lintyfresh85]

Well.

Vizcarra...
6.3 innings pitched per start
6 QS in 9 starts... or 66.7%
2nd in all of the BLB in ERA.... 1.91.
68 K's in 80 innings.
1.04 WHIP

Pateshall...
5.8 innnings pitched per start.
8 QS in 16 starts... or 50%
3.14 ERA
72 in 94. Or... Vizcarra only has 4 less K's in 14 innings.
1.27 WHIP

[Pat]

To be honest, there are probably 10 starting pitchers having better seasons than Pateshall in the IL...

Charlie O'Rogan (WAS), Tim Nathan (BAL), Angel Caramillo (MOR), Mark Melanson (MOR), Gervasio Dealba (DAV), Joe Soto (WIL), Jack Watson (PHI)....

[Riverman]

Isn't Pateshall hurt? So he wouldn't be able to play in the All Star Game we are not having anyway.

But more seriously, you guys are lucky the manager picks weren't 4 Brawlers and 4 Bats like Diesel wanted to do. I had to talk him out of this by noting that he already had the biggest budget in the IL.

OK, so that isn't exactly true; it was me who wanted to do it that way but Pat said no; I have an excuse though since I need the money.

[Pat]

But more seriously, you guys are lucky the manager picks weren't 4 Brawlers and 4 Bats like Diesel wanted to do. I had to talk him out of this by noting that he already had the biggest budget in the IL.

OK, so that isn't exactly true; it was me who wanted to do it that way but Pat said no; I have an excuse though since I need the money.

I have actually had two separate managers say they are shocked that I didn't select SP Charlie O'Rogan with one of my manager picks.

7-3, 2.84 ERA, 88 IP, 98 Ks, 1.21 WHIP
#1 in H/9, #1 in OPP avg, #4 in K/9, #5 in Ks

[spot]

Well.

Vizcarra...
6.3 innings pitched per start
6 QS in 9 starts... or 66.7%
2nd in all of the BLB in ERA.... 1.91.
68 K's in 80 innings.
1.04 WHIP

Pateshall...
5.8 innnings pitched per start.
8 QS in 16 starts... or 50%
3.14 ERA
72 in 94. Or... Vizcarra only has 4 less K's in 14 innings.
1.27 WHIP

If you are going by this then:

Vizcarra 9GS 56.2IP
Pateshall 16GS 94.2IP
Aurillo 16GS 111.1IP
Chavaraga 16GS 117IP
Theodore 16GS 118IP
Parongao 15GS 102IP

Has he logged enough time as a RP to be selected as one?

As a RP alone? No, but his cumulative stats are more representative of him being an All-Star as a RP. No question that he has been a fantastic starter for California but he hasn't done it long enough. It's like players not reaching the AB milestone for the batting title or a pitcher not getting enough IP for the ERA crown.

To be honest, there are probably 10 starting pitchers having better seasons than Pateshall in the IL...

Charlie O'Rogan (WAS), Tim Nathan (BAL), Angel Caramillo (MOR), Mark Melanson (MOR), Gervasio Dealba (DAV), Joe Soto (WIL), Jack Watson (PHI)....

Well, you initially posted 10 SP's that would make a better argument thereby showing me that there may actually be an argument.

Of course I said Pateshall, he is my guy and he is the one that I was looking at when I noticed all of this. As I said, I don't think Pateshall is the 11th best pitcher on the list necessarily.

Maybe Los Alamos is a bit sensitive to accumulated stat levels because of the near Tardif omission last year. (At least he got one of the rookie awards! And look what he's done so far as a reprise, we aren't even complaining that he's not on the ballot! stupid Tardif...)

[spot]

I have actually had two separate managers say they are shocked that I didn't select SP Charlie O'Rogan with one of my manager picks.

7-3, 2.84 ERA, 88 IP, 98 Ks, 1.21 WHIP
#1 in H/9, #1 in OPP avg, #4 in K/9, #5 in Ks

A much better SP choice: 15GS 88IP

[Lintyfresh85]

It's like players not reaching the AB milestone for the batting title or a pitcher not getting enough IP for the ERA crown.

But he HAS qualified for the ERA crown. He's listed as second in all of the BLB on the stats page. The stats page only shows qualified players.

And I still don't see your argument... the 18 GM's that voted, voted Vizcarra in... the Top 5 were automatically given a spot on the team, and Vizcarra finished 5th in voting. It's not like Pat picked him, he made the team on voting merit alone.