2016 End of Season Awards

[Jimmy]

Jimmy's back!

If ever this league needed the ghost of Dave to return it's now. I will be that ghost and they can hate me if they want.

[PaulC]

I think that is where the extra innings pitched come in to play. To think Yahn did that and threw a pile more innings late in games apparently is waaaaaaaay more impressive than a starter that was coddled by his manager and bullpen. No horse in the race, but that's how I would rate them.

[Jimmy]

I did.

Come on.

Yahn finished in the top five in 14 pitching stats.

Taylor finished in the top five in 11 pitching stats.

You're majorly misrepresenting the gap between those two aces.

Misrepresenting? I'm in the process of watching London Has Fallen, do I really have to pause this to post the number gaps in this race? I'm not just talking about being in the top 5. I'm talking about being #1 and being better than Taylor in almost every one of them. Taylor appears in two categories of the top 5 that Yahn does not. BBs per 9 and BBs/K and who really cares because he beats Taylor's OBP by a healthy amount over 146 innings. I'm not saying Taylor wasn't good, but he wasn't Yahn.

BTW - I was wrong about the Ks. It was good enough for 4th best in the history of the BLB. My bad.

[Z]

Fair enough.

[mike]

Ok (I rarely do this) but occasionally it just has to be done.

Comparing players is pretty hard to do sometimes because people value certain categories differently. I'm just curious what you see in the numbers comparing the two that makes you think this way. To get an idea of who was the better pitcher you might want to hit the stats tab and take a look for Yahn's name. It's EVERYWHERE. And he's not just there, he's #1.

He pitched more innings than anyone, posted the 2nd highest K total in the HISTORY of the league, led in so many categories I don't even care to post them all, and you think Taylor had a better season because he was better at ERA by .04 and led the league in K/BB's and came in 2ND in BB's per 9?

Dude, I may not be in touch with the pulse of the league at least I'm in touch with reality.

Okay Jimmy. Lets take a look at this, and just see how out of touch about reality i actually am.

"Pat Yahn isn't just on the leaderboards he's number one." You don't care to look. That's ok, I don't have a problem looking because there really aren't that many. Maybe you've been away from the pulse of this league for too long to actually look.

So categories many! How ever will Taylor compare?

Well let's see, you discredited Taylor's ERA title because it's only .4 differential.

So by that logic, we can discredit Yahn's...
- WAR win (.1)
- WHIP win (.5)

Right? Again, I don't know how reality works. By by your logic, those are no longer valid cases for his superiority.

So ERA, WAR, and WHIP are out.

How about FIP?

Taylor 1.86
Yahn 2.38

Is that a big enough difference? I mean shit, thats a pretty substantial difference, and according to my stats tab, the name "TAYLOR" is number one here. Not sure, let me refresh the page.
--
Nope. Still him. Interesting.
--

How about someone's ability to strike people out and not walk them? Taylor's K/BB ratio of 9.27 (again first, weird) is 1.05 higher than the second place. That's pretty good. Funny, with that historic K rate that you mentioned Yahn having, his K/BB ratio isn't top 6. Guess I missed it.

Generally, when I'm evaluating players I like to look at the clutch factors of players. Like how do they perform in the toughest moments. Right off the bat:

Todd Taylor in September - 3-1 1.55 ERA. (4 of his 5 runs came in his 5- pitch limit bullpen against syracuse.)

Pat Yahn in Sept/OCT - 1-2 2.94 ERA in sept (highest ERA per month), 0-1 8.44 ERA in OCT against New Orleans in an important game. Good thing he's got a second shot this week, hopefully he bounces back.

"But he threw so many innings!" Is a common quote I've heard multiple times, and it's just so non-impactful, at this point I find it comical.

Essentially, in strictly comparing these two players, the 60 innings that Yahn threw more than Taylor, that was good for 0.1 worth of a win above replacement player. So, because he was the only good pitcher on his staff and had to throw that many innings, virtually, he wasn't any better than taylor was for sitting on the bench.

Yahn had a great year. He's one of the best pitchers in the game.

Excuse me for thinking that Taylor had a better season, even though many of the stats I gave you definitely agree with that. Don't fucking call me out of touch with reality dude.

We differ in opinions, deal with it. And maybe actually come with some substance next time instead of "Look vaguely at their seasons, you'll see his name there".

[Z]

I'm still kind of torn.

Both aces did everything their teams asked of them.

LA needed Yahn to go out there every fifth day and throw at least seven innings of terrific baseball every fucking time.

Pittsburgh needed Taylor to pitch every sixth game and do the absolute best job he could.

Both aces did exactly what they were asked to do.

Is it fair to "penalize" Taylor for not racking up the counting stats in his role? I don't think so, no.

At the same time, I do feel like Yahn deserves credit for excelling in what was probably the more difficult assignment.

I'm still debating.

[Pat]

If this debate gets Jimmy active on the forum again, it's a win for everyone.

[funclown]

I kind of wish HAL would decide instead of the biased GMs. The top 3 pitchers is black and white yet all 3 are missing actual votes.

Humans = dumb.

Also... Can we get on with the season so we can get to the offseason?

Teams have exported.

[mike]

If this debate gets Jimmy active on the forum again, it's a win for everyone.

From what I've observed, Jimmy is an all time BLB great and has nothing but my utmost respect .. But there's no reason to insult my intelligence for siding with one horse in a two horse race

[Z]

I think we can all agree it's crazy three ballots don't have Yahn and Taylor both in the top two, and one asshole didn't even have Yahn on the ballot.

[mike]

I think we can all agree it's crazy three ballots don't have Yahn and Taylor both in the top two, and one asshole didn't even have Yahn on the ballot.

Wasn't me. Had him two.

[Delandis]

Okay Jimmy. Lets take a look at this, and just see how out of touch about reality i actually am.

"Pat Yahn isn't just on the leaderboards he's number one." You don't care to look. That's ok, I don't have a problem looking because there really aren't that many. Maybe you've been away from the pulse of this league for too long to actually look.

So categories many! How ever will Taylor compare?

Well let's see, you discredited Taylor's ERA title because it's only .4 differential.

So by that logic, we can discredit Yahn's...
- WAR win (.1)
- WHIP win (.5)

Right? Again, I don't know how reality works. By by your logic, those are no longer valid cases for his superiority.

So ERA, WAR, and WHIP are out.

How about FIP?

Taylor 1.86
Yahn 2.38

Is that a big enough difference? I mean shit, thats a pretty substantial difference, and according to my stats tab, the name "TAYLOR" is number one here. Not sure, let me refresh the page.
--
Nope. Still him. Interesting.
--

How about someone's ability to strike people out and not walk them? Taylor's K/BB ratio of 9.27 (again first, weird) is 1.05 higher than the second place. That's pretty good. Funny, with that historic K rate that you mentioned Yahn having, his K/BB ratio isn't top 6. Guess I missed it.

Generally, when I'm evaluating players I like to look at the clutch factors of players. Like how do they perform in the toughest moments. Right off the bat:

Todd Taylor in September - 3-1 1.55 ERA. (4 of his 5 runs came in his 5- pitch limit bullpen against syracuse.)

Pat Yahn in Sept/OCT - 1-2 2.94 ERA in sept (highest ERA per month), 0-1 8.44 ERA in OCT against New Orleans in an important game. Good thing he's got a second shot this week, hopefully he bounces back.

"But he threw so many innings!" Is a common quote I've heard multiple times, and it's just so non-impactful, at this point I find it comical.

Essentially, in strictly comparing these two players, the 60 innings that Yahn threw more than Taylor, that was good for 0.1 worth of a win above replacement player. So, because he was the only good pitcher on his staff and had to throw that many innings, virtually, he wasn't any better than taylor was for sitting on the bench.

Yahn had a great year. He's one of the best pitchers in the game.

Excuse me for thinking that Taylor had a better season, even though many of the stats I gave you definitely agree with that. Don't fucking call me out of touch with reality dude.

We differ in opinions, deal with it. And maybe actually come with some substance next time instead of "Look vaguely at their seasons, you'll see his name there".

Very impressive arguments, sir.

[BradZ]

I kind of wish HAL would decide instead of the biased GMs. The top 3 pitchers is black and white yet all 3 are missing actual votes.

Humans = dumb.

Also... Can we get on with the season so we can get to the offseason?

Teams have exported.

In the playoffs I ask for explicit signoff from participating GMs in a post stating they're ready to go before running a SIM ahead of schedule. Probably overly cautious, but I'd hate to make an assumption and move on before an owner is actually ready.

[Pat]

From what I've observed, Jimmy is an all time BLB great and has nothing but my utmost respect .. But there's no reason to insult my intelligence for siding with one horse in a two horse race

That's how a lot of BLB rivalries were born.

[Jimmy]

Okay Jimmy. Lets take a look at this, and just see how out of touch about reality i actually am.

"Pat Yahn isn't just on the leaderboards he's number one." You don't care to look. That's ok, I don't have a problem looking because there really aren't that many. Maybe you've been away from the pulse of this league for too long to actually look.

So categories many! How ever will Taylor compare?

Well let's see, you discredited Taylor's ERA title because it's only .4 differential.

So by that logic, we can discredit Yahn's...
- WAR win (.1)
- WHIP win (.5)

Right? Again, I don't know how reality works. By by your logic, those are no longer valid cases for his superiority.

So ERA, WAR, and WHIP are out.

How about FIP?

Taylor 1.86
Yahn 2.38

Is that a big enough difference? I mean shit, thats a pretty substantial difference, and according to my stats tab, the name "TAYLOR" is number one here. Not sure, let me refresh the page.
--
Nope. Still him. Interesting.
--

How about someone's ability to strike people out and not walk them? Taylor's K/BB ratio of 9.27 (again first, weird) is 1.05 higher than the second place. That's pretty good. Funny, with that historic K rate that you mentioned Yahn having, his K/BB ratio isn't top 6. Guess I missed it.

Generally, when I'm evaluating players I like to look at the clutch factors of players. Like how do they perform in the toughest moments. Right off the bat:

Todd Taylor in September - 3-1 1.55 ERA. (4 of his 5 runs came in his 5- pitch limit bullpen against syracuse.)

Pat Yahn in Sept/OCT - 1-2 2.94 ERA in sept (highest ERA per month), 0-1 8.44 ERA in OCT against New Orleans in an important game. Good thing he's got a second shot this week, hopefully he bounces back.

"But he threw so many innings!" Is a common quote I've heard multiple times, and it's just so non-impactful, at this point I find it comical.

Essentially, in strictly comparing these two players, the 60 innings that Yahn threw more than Taylor, that was good for 0.1 worth of a win above replacement player. So, because he was the only good pitcher on his staff and had to throw that many innings, virtually, he wasn't any better than taylor was for sitting on the bench.

Yahn had a great year. He's one of the best pitchers in the game.

Excuse me for thinking that Taylor had a better season, even though many of the stats I gave you definitely agree with that. Don't fucking call me out of touch with reality dude.

We differ in opinions, deal with it. And maybe actually come with some substance next time instead of "Look vaguely at their seasons, you'll see his name there".

Why are you comparing months when this is based on the year? I don't care what anyone did in any month as long as they pitched all year. If anything looking at Yahn's Sept/Oct shows just how much more he was dominant over your pitcher over the other 5 months! My only real question is why didn't Taylor start 32 games? Because he was coddled and you were chasing this award for him. I put Yahn out there balls to the wall and didn't worry about his numbers.


Did you really bring out FIP? Why not bring out a stat that measures what a player would do if his GM had put a better defense in front of him.

You want to throw away the WAR? Fine. It's heavily weighted by WINS and we tied there. WHIP...not a chance. It only makes him that much more impressive looking after he pitched 60 innings more than Taylor. All while beating your pitcher in every major category there is.

I love the "look over here" obfuscation game you're playing at but I still haven't even posted the categories that Yahn beats Taylor in and you clearly left out the litany of them. I'll get to them after zombies...if you continue to disbelieve.