2015 Regular Season SIM 9 Complete - Next SIM Thu 02/04

[Delandis]

Looking at the stat leaders, it is amazing how much hitting talent Denver had.

Wright (DVS)
Rodriques (BAL)
McPherson (LAD)
McInturf (HAR)
Perkins (LAD)

I'm sure I'm missing someone.

[Carlos]

Looking at the stat leaders, it is amazing how much hitting talent Denver had.

Wright (DVS)
Rodriques (BAL)
McPherson (LAD)
McInturf (HAR)
Perkins (LAD)

I'm sure I'm missing someone.

Biggest mistake I made with that team is listening to people tell me that my biggest mistake with that team is ignoring pitching and defense. No one's fault but my own for listening.

The team started crumbling once I traded away Perkins and McInturf. Or traded them away for future picks rather than right now improvements.

Why I agreed that a team that had won over 100 games in two consecutive seasons with a Brewmasters and DLCS visit needed massive changes, I don't know.

They were a ridiculous bunch even if only short lived.

[umd]

Tom Wright resuscitated our franchise. We were on the razor's edge of really falling off.

[Ryan]

Looking at the stat leaders, it is amazing how much hitting talent Denver had.

Wright (DVS)
Rodriques (BAL)
McPherson (LAD)
McInturf (HAR)
Perkins (LAD)

I'm sure I'm missing someone.

So is Carlos.

[Z]

Biggest mistake I made with that team is listening to people tell me that my biggest mistake with that team is ignoring pitching and defense. No one's fault but my own for listening.

The team started crumbling once I traded away Perkins and McInturf. Or traded them away for future picks rather than right now improvements.

Why I agreed that a team that had won over 100 games in two consecutive seasons with a Brewmasters and DLCS visit needed massive changes, I don't know.

They were a ridiculous bunch even if only short lived.

Yes ... and no.

The biggest problem might have simply been the return.

Here's what you received for Wright, for example.

1. 1B Byung-gyu Lee, 26 years old. Debuted for Denver this year. Currently 2 for 14 at the plate.

2. OF Jimmy Jones. Batted .202 in 93 games for Denver BC.

3. 1B Ian Eberly. 24 years old, .711 OPS for Denver's AA affiliate this year.

4. LF Tristan Carter. 24 years old, .677 OPS for Denver's AAA club.

5. 2015 1st round draft pick, 18th overall. Traded to Baltimore with two other firsts for Todd Taylor, who was later sent to Pittsburgh for Maine's 2015 first round pick, which became the 19th pick, and Pittsburgh's 2017 first round pick.

Two first basemen who can't really hit, a rental outfielder who didn't hit, a minor league outfielder who might make the BLB, and a late first round pick that was later traded, for one of the league's best hitters.

That is not ideal.

[mike]

Biggest mistake I made with that team is listening to people tell me that my biggest mistake with that team is ignoring pitching and defense. No one's fault but my own for listening.

The team started crumbling once I traded away Perkins and McInturf. Or traded them away for future picks rather than right now improvements.

Why I agreed that a team that had won over 100 games in two consecutive seasons with a Brewmasters and DLCS visit needed massive changes, I don't know.

They were a ridiculous bunch even if only short lived.

You know Carlos...I think you have a little bit of indecision based on public perception. I don't mean that negatively, I just mean like sometimes the noise creeps in and you go into "fuck it" mode rather quickly.

That being said, I'm very interested to see this rebuild that your working on. I think you've got the right intentions

[Delandis]

2015 Regular Season SIM 9 Complete - Next SIM Thu 02/04

I think Carlos got market value for everyone except Perkins because he turned down a better offer from me earlier that season. :)

To me the issue was that none of these guys were particularly good at fielding and nobody wanted to pay full price for only a big bat.

Right or wrong, Carlos wanted to move forward and got market value and I personally I understand the motivation to move assets sooner than later.

But my post was just noting that there really a lot of talent there now spread across the league and dominating years later.

[Z]

I think Carlos got market value for everyone except Perkins because he turned down a better offer from me earlier that season. :)

To me the issue was that none of these guys were particularly good at fielding and nobody wanted to pay full price for only a big bat.

Right or wrong, Carlos wanted to move forward and got market value and I personally I understand the motivation to move assets sooner than later.

But my post was just noting that there really a lot of talent there now spread across the league and dominating years later.

Right, I don't know what other offers he may have received. And I think I know as well as anyone that it can be hard to trade stars for a strong return.

That being said, holding onto guys until a great offer becomes available is a valid approach, one that I think umd (and Pat before) in particular excels at.

It seems to me like, looking around the landscape of the league over a few decades of seasons, flipping stars for subpar returns—especially consistently—isn't a winning strategy long-term.

[Carlos]

Yes ... and no.

The biggest problem might have simply been the return.

Here's what you received for Wright, for example.

1. 1B Byung-gyu Lee, 26 years old. Debuted for Denver this year. Currently 2 for 14 at the plate.

2. OF Jimmy Jones. Batted .202 in 93 games for Denver BC.

3. 1B Ian Eberly. 24 years old, .711 OPS for Denver's AA affiliate this year.

4. LF Tristan Carter. 24 years old, .677 OPS for Denver's AAA club.

5. 2015 1st round draft pick, 18th overall. Traded to Baltimore with two other firsts for Todd Taylor, who was later sent to Pittsburgh for Maine's 2015 first round pick, which became the 19th pick, and Pittsburgh's 2017 first round pick.

Two first basemen who can't really hit, a rental outfielder who didn't hit, a minor league outfielder who might make the BLB, and a late first round pick that was later traded, for one of the league's best hitters.

That is not ideal.

Well, the thing I was saying isn't about the return. That's an entirely different matter. I will disagree on the value of those returns as each of the major players I traded has garnered me prospects that were in the OSA Top 100 and are part of this franchise's future.

The only thing I was commenting on was trading away the players to begin with. I should have never started rolling that ball of snow and pushing it down a hill.

There was never going to be a way I could get equal value back because I traded away players that were, arguably, some of the best in the league.

[Z]

The only thing I was commenting on was trading away the players to begin with. I should have never started rolling that ball of snow and pushing it down a hill.

There was never going to be a way I could get equal value back because I traded away players that were, arguably, some of the best in the league.

And I fully agree with you there.

My point was simply that if you do decide you want to start rolling that ball of snow, maybe don't let go of it until the return is there.

[Carlos]

You know Carlos...I think you have a little bit of indecision based on public perception. I don't mean that negatively, I just mean like sometimes the noise creeps in and you go into "fuck it" mode rather quickly.

That being said, I'm very interested to see this rebuild that your working on. I think you've got the right intentions

I don't disagree. And that's exactly what I mean about listening to people tell me that my team wasn't balanced. This isn't specific to anyone. I'm not saying it was done on purpose to cause damage to my team. I think it was mostly done in good faith but it was simply the wrong strategy with that club. Most especially the wrong strategy for someone like me who puts effort into drafting and developing but mostly doesn't care when it comes to trading (I'm easy to trade with because if I want to move someone, I move him. That's obvious to everyone).

So yes, "fuck it" mode is the wrong mode for me. I jumped into that mode because I thought the advice I was receiving would be good for me. The issue is, I don't approach things in a similar way so I was taking advice that I had no desire to apply appropriately.

With this new rebuild, I'm going to focus on what I do well and leave it at that.

[mike]

Total disclaimer, "fuck it" mode is a very important mode for anyone in any situation

[Z]

Total disclaimer, "fuck it" mode is a very important mode for anyone in any situation

I can already picture the cover of the team DVD...



FUCK IT: THE WILD STORY OF THE 2015 PITTSBURGH MILLERS

[BDub]

I can already picture the cover of the team DVD...



FUCK IT: THE WILD STORY OF THE 2015 PITTSBURGH MILLERS

No, this seems like the sequel. Fuck It Part 1 was last season. This is Fuck It 2: Pat's Return.

[Carlos]

And I fully agree with you there.

My point was simply that if you do decide you want to start rolling that ball of snow, maybe don't let go of it until the return is there.

I get what your point is but I disagree that the return wasn't appropriate, especially for the market and the defensive deficiencies of the players traded.

My system is built primarily through each of those trades. Reyna and TJ Davis are merely the first two to start showing dividends. The others are either just being called up or playing in the minors at levels new to themselves this season.

The return isn't the problem. Trading them was the problem.