2011 Hall of Fame Voting

[Z]

I enjoyed reading your post. Good history lesson on some of the greats from the league's past.

Thanks!

[Ryan]

Fine job Z!

[Matt]

I have updated the 1st post with all of Z's fine writing (minus his end sentence opinion).

Once again great work Z. We are looking at hopefully adding 10-12 this season to make up for missing last year.

I know it's a bit overwhelming with 40 players on the ballot but don't be afraid to vote early and often. Several ballots have come in with 25+ votes.

[funclown]

I think I covered everyone. There goes my afternoon.

As long as you don't run some type of heavy machinery write away my friend.

[Sully]

Early results show RPS still getting the love. There's so many good players on there that a lot in the league just don't know enough about. They're easy choices for the guys that remember the late 70s and early 80s.

[Z]

Early results show RPS still getting the love. There's so many good players on there that a lot in the league just don't know enough about. They're easy choices for the guys that remember the late 70s and early 80s.

I tried.

I don't get it.

I'm not looking to rip anyone and I'd really like it if someone — someone other than me — could weigh in on their voting process.

There are some guys who are falling way short of what I expected and I have no clue why.

Can anyone explain? We don't usually have private, silent ballots and I'm not only one talking.

[Sully]

My list had 24 guys on it and I seriously considered another 3 or 4. I think people just look at stats in relation to what you'd need to be in the MLB HoF. Stats like 3000 Ks, 250 wins, 500 HR, 3000 hits, etc. If guys are far short of that number, they're passed on.

That's not the main issue, but I do believe it's part of it.

[Matt]

Usually we have posts on each player that 2-3 people chime in, I don't really think it sways anyone.

People just have different views. There are a lot of borderline players. Also as mentioned many owners didn't get to "see" most of these guys play. Combined with 40 choices and it's overload.

[Delandis]

Tim Nathan (SP)
-I'd like to add that he is 4th All-Time in VORP for pitching at 734.8.

After him there is a bit of a drop off where the #5 player is at 702 AND in the Hall of Fame (Dunmore Theodore). As a matter of fact, there are 4 pitchers in the Hall Fame below him in VORP. The ONLY 3 guys to eclipse his VORP are in the HOF already and the 2 guys (Guiterrez and Tucker) on the current ballot don't even come close to his career VORP.

The man was awesome. No he didn't have massive strikeout numbers but he had elite control and got the job done with 325 (8th) quality starts out of his 490 career starts. It would be a tragedy to see someone as quietly dominant as Nathan be passed on again.

LINK TO VORP LEADERBOARD

Above I have added a quick link to the leaderboards so you can see what I mean.

[Z]

Usually we have posts on each player that 2-3 people chime in, I don't really think it sways anyone.

People just have different views. There are a lot of borderline players. Also as mentioned many owners didn't get to "see" most of these guys play. Combined with 40 choices and it's overload.

It seems like the veteran guys really aren't getting their due in the voting. Most of the new guys — with one MAJOR exception — are getting the votes I expect.

Tim Nathan (SP)
-I'd like to add that he is 4th All-Time in VORP for pitching at 734.8.

After him there is a bit of a drop off where the #5 player is at 702 AND in the Hall of Fame (Dunmore Theodore). As a matter of fact there are 4 pitchers in the Hall Fame below him in VORP. The ONLY 3 guys to eclipse his VORP are in the HOF already and the 2 guys (Guiterrez and Tucker) on the current ballot don't even come close to his career VORP.

The man was awesome. It would be a tragedy to see someone as quietly dominant as Nathan be passed on again.

LINK TO VORP LEADERBOARD

Above I have added a quick link to the leaderboards so you can see what I mean.

I added Nathan to my ballot.

[funclown]

I always thought we were a bit to strict with our voting. Alot of time I had 7 or more guys per ballot I voted for.

For the most part I agree those original players threw some of peoples mindsets off. Also I always try to remember our players shelf life in this is typically not as long as real players. Many factors contribute to that including PD aging which a read a shit load about on the boards. Not sure if we are the default on this, but its designed to faster player turnover. There are people who have run 50 season charts and graphs on this and most show player peak sooner then the MLB only to drop off faster at age 32 versus the same sample group.

Top it all off since we can see actual ratings drops or trending down, lots of owners tendency is to drop the 35+ year olds in favor of young kids who are A) cheaper, B) have more potential on the upswing in turn shortening careers by a couple of seasons. The counter argument to this is great players can still play past this and be valuable enough to keep around.

[Delandis]

Geoff Scott had 5 DWI's (4 at 2B and 1 as SS) and 6 All-Star Appearances.

He's got a Stout Slugger.

He is 3rd ALL-TIME among middle infielders in VORP.

The two ahead of him are Hector Carbajal and Dani Trujillo. Carbajal played in almost 300 more games than Scott and Trujillo in over 900 more games, respectively, to get their VORP above Scott.

LINK TO MIDDLE INFIELDER VORP LEADERBOARD

He was that GOOD.

Sometimes the RAW numbers just don't tell the story. These are really elite players that deserve their time in the Hall.

[Carlos]

My ballot was so long, she's surprised.

[Z]

I need to say something here.

See this guy?

This guy.



That's Geoff Scott. He is in my opinion the best second baseman in league history — no disrespect to umd's guy Chuck Durham.

Here's what made him so good.

* He was FANTASTIC defensively at second base — good enough to also play 512 games at shortstop. He won five BLB awards for his defense, including one at short.

* Scott was consistently the best player at his position in the league, which is why he made six All-Star teams in a row from 1989 to 1993.

* He was a tremendous hitter for any position — let alone a second baseman. He won the 1989 Stout Slugger by hitting .328 with 31 home runs, 125 RBIs, 118 runs scored for a 10.4 WAR. And to cap it off, he won a glove award that year to boot! And then the next year, he hit .328 again!

* He struggled with injuries in his 30s and it hurt his counting stats. He was still a terrific defender with a great batting eye and 20+ home run power when he was on the field in his mid-30s.

* I understand that it doesn't look great that he wasn't a productive regular into his mid-to-late 30s, but consider that he was one of the very best players in the league in his early to mid-20s. He hit .317 with 61 extra-base hits as a 23 year old and then won Stout Slugger as a 24 year old. He had his prime in his early and mid 20s instead of his late 20s and early 30s like most other players — is that really a bad thing? I don't think it is. He still had a terrific peak and it helped teams.

* Here's a quick look at how he compares to other second basemen historically. He's the ONLY second baseman or shortstop to ever win Stout Slugger. His .847 OPS is the best ever among second baseman. The next best among guys with at least 5,000 at-bats is Durham's .826 OPS — that's not even close. Scott is far and away the superior hitting second baseman. He's third in home runs, second in RBI, fourth in runs scored, if you like those stats, and that's with his injuries.

That's my piece. If I could cast only ONE vote on this ballot, I would probably cast it for Geoff Scott.

P.S. In case you're unaware, you can change your ballot if you already voted. Just go back to the utility and add/remove names and hit submit ballot again.

[funclown]

Did we have him in the Patriot system at the end of his career? As long as he retires with the Lynn Jersey I'm good.