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**Delandis** · 05-19-2015, 04:03 PM

Just a little refresher as to how and why this came about.

Veteran's Committee

Z · 05-19-2015, 04:08 PM

I'm going to repost it below in case people don't click over...

First, a little background.

The Baseball Hall of Fame used a Veterans Committee for many years to look back upon the history of the league and see if there were any former players who, upon further reflection and the passing of time, merited induction into the Hall.

It's time for us to implement such a mechanism because I believe we have a history problem.

I see two causes.

First, the Clay situation. Rewriting our awards made me think about it, and Delandis brought up a good point in that thread about reconsidering players like Cesaro Campoveroe and Joe Sierra for the Hall. Knowing what we know now about the 1990s in this league, I think we'd vote differently.

Second, without getting into nitty-gritty OOTP details, this league hasn't had a balanced history of player creation. Look at this table I put together below.

Hall of Fame Inductees Categorized By Their First Season

<table style="border: 1px dashed gray;margin-top:1px;border-spacing: 10px;border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr><td>
</td><td>1978</td><td>Post-1978</td></tr><tr><td>Batter</td><td>10</td><td>4</td></tr><tr><td>Starting Pitcher</td><td>7</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td>Relief Pitcher</td><td>4</td><td>0</td></tr></tbody></table>

We have inducted 21 guys from the league's beginning and only 6 so far from the 30 years to follow.

An overwhelming amount of our Hall of Fame inductees are guys who appeared in-game during the league's inaugural 1978 season.

I think most of those guys likely belong. I'm not suggesting we take anyone out.

But I do think the strength of that initial class of players raised our expectations to a level that history shows us was probably too high.

We saw players with very strong Hall of Fame cases — guys like Hector Carbajal, Von Haynes, Kyoden Kubota, and Joe Rojas — come up short this year, while outstanding pitchers such as Derrek Tucker and Chuck Lindsey fell off the ballot completely.

Doug Miles, Robby Shannon, Joe Aurillo, Robert Abbott, Denver Brode, and Mike Murdock are a few other post-1978 names I'd push for to be reconsidered.

And with the passage of time, maybe we'd look back more favorably on a few 1978 guys even, such as Joe Sierra, Vincent Nino, and Cesaro Campoveroe. What they achieved looks more impressive when they're not historically compared to the juiced Virginia guys.

That we've only inducted 4 hitters and 2 pitchers — starter or reliever — who entered the BLB world after 1978 tells me we're probably missing something here.

We need to take another look.

Z · 05-19-2015, 04:33 PM

We don't have any second basemen or shortstops in the Hall. It seems obvious to me we'd want to induct at least a couple of those guys here. A Hall with zero middle infielders in 33 years is silly.

I'll start with a mini-breakdown of those positions.

Hector Carbajal is maybe the best SS in league history (Chavez aside). He was that good. Hitting and defense. Terrific player. Carbajal should be in.

Jose Sanchez made six All-Star teams and won five DWIs. He has a career .309 average as a shortstop. He was a productive player until he was 39 years old. He was a pillar of the Maine dynasty that won several championships. He lost some time to injuries in there. 2,169 career hits. In terms of winning and all-around productivity, I have to vote yes.

Noah George is a stronger candidate than you might think. He's 10th all-time in hits. That's 10th all-time not out of shortstops, but 10th out of every player in 33 years of BLB history. .290 career hitter with 2,806 career hits. Decent power. Probably an average defender at best. Depends on what you value. I'm on the fence.

Jermaine Ednams is a five-time All-Star and a solid candidate at SS too. In his three-year peak in Batavia, he averaged an OPS of about .880 with over 100 runs scored a year. He had three seasons where he hit .330 or close to it. Higher peak than George. Almost all his value was before age 30. I'm voting for him.

Dale O'Hegarty is a Virginia player who appears to be clean, as in not fucked with by Clay. Seven-time All-Star shortstop. Won a glove award. OPS in Virginia of about .800 (.773 career). 534 career doubles and 484 career steals. I'm voting for him.

Chuck Durham and Geoff Scott are clearly the two best second basemen of all-time from where I sit. Their numbers really speak for themselves. Standout hitters who could really field their positions as well. Definitely yes votes for me.

Robert Abbott was a very good second baseman in Washington for at least a decade. He's the next best second baseman in league history after Scott and Durham. Five All-Star appearances, 2,287 career hits, 561 doubles, 367 stolen bases. It's a good resume. Yes from me.

Helesp�ntico Jarava has seven All-Star appearances, which make him a really intriguing candidate. He only had four seasons where he played at least 150 games. He was at his best in Batavia in 1995 and 1996 when he racked up over 200 hits a season with lots of double and stellar defense. I vote yes on him.

Wilton Harcourt is an interesting case. He could really fucking hit. Nine-time All-Star! Don't ignore that. He won the Stout Slugger, which only a couple infielders have done. Below-average with the glove. His career numbers are a little low compared to others simply because he was already 26 years old when the BLB began, so I'd caution against penalizing him for career numbers. I'm voting for him.

**umd** · 05-19-2015, 04:52 PM

BDub, please retire Chuck Durham's number. Dude is a legend and my favorite BLB player of all time.

Z · 05-19-2015, 04:57 PM

I'm on a roll. I'm going one group at a time, and then when I'm done maybe I'll condense them all into one well-organized post.

Let's talk about catchers.

We have two in the Hall already: Malachi Stiver and Sergio Lumar. Lumar probably still has the best all-around career of any catcher. Stiver was 31 years old when the BLB started, and while his career numbers don't measure up for that reason, at his peak he was the best catcher we've seen in the BLB, period.

So the candidates...

Kyoden Kubota made five All-Star appearances and won four rings in Maine and another in Baltimore. Career .289 hitter with 2,468 hits—terrific numbers for a catcher. He has more hits than any other catcher in BLB history. Very good second act in Baltimore where he won his fifth ring. Career .860 OPS. In terms of peak and career value, he's probably one of the two best catchers we've seen, with the already-inducted Lumar being the other one. Yes for me.

Von Haynes made nine All-Star teams, a great figure, and he won the 1998 DL Stout Slugger. For 10 or 11 years you would have loved to have him as your catcher. He hit .318 with 27 HR, 87 RBI, and a .975 OPS in his 1998 Stout Slugger season. He's the best hitter in Sin City/New Orleans franchise history I would think. Career .298 average. He even won a DWI, so he could catch. I vote yes.

Curt Wells appeared in the All-Star game twice. He won the 1990 IL Refreshing New Brew. Career .252 hitter with some pop. Good catcher for a very long period. At his peak, he wasn't as good as some of these other players. He's a longevity guy, though you could argue a 38-year-old catcher hitting 30 home runs is better than a longevity guy. I lean no but he was good.

Mike Murdock is one of the best Bats ever, which is saying something. Six-time All-Star. One of the very best catchers, if not players, in the league during his prime. He was productive through age 33, which is maybe about normal for a catcher, although he didn't have the longevity of other candidates. Again, he was absolutely terrific in his prime. I'm on the fence, leaning yes.

Jared Kirby split his career between catcher and first base. Five All-Star appearances. Really great player for Windy City for a decade. 383 career home runs, which is currently the 13th-most all-time. 2,659 career hits, which ranks him 16th all-time. I was leaning no at first. After more consideration, he's 14th all-time in WAR among hitters. Put another way, using WAR as a metric, he's the 14th best position player in league history. I'm not married to WAR, but that swings it for me. Yes.

Harry Elliott was a fucking beast on-base machine. .305 career batting average with a .424 on-base percentage. Six-time All-Star. He hit .335 with a .league-leading 466 OBP (!!!) for me as a 36 year old. He led the league in OBP six times. Very good defensive catcher who threw out over 40% of base-stealers in his prime. He has the highest career batting average and on-base percentage of any catcher in league history! He is a really easy yes vote for me.

Z · 05-19-2015, 05:26 PM

Let's talk corner infielders... first base and third base.

We have 3 first basemen and 3 third baseman already in the Hall.

From where I sit, the 3 first basemen in the Hall already are clearly the three best players at that position in league history. The same is true of the 3 third basemen. So like with the catchers, we're voting to expand the positions here.

Third base first.

I covered Hector Carbajal as a shortstop given he spent slightly more games there than at third base. To reiterate, he is absolutely a Hall of Famer.

Curt Dodson made two All-Star teams and won Refreshing New Brew in 1987. His 1992 season for Mississippi in which he hit .314 with 119 RBI and a league-leading 59 doubles was impressive. He had a very long, distinguished career, notching 2,654 career hits. He's on the fence for me.

Vincent Nino was a wonderful two-way third baseman. He won five consecutive DWIs and made consecutive five All-Star teams. (The DWI and All-Star streaks overlapped but weren't the exact same years.) His best year was probably 1985, in which he hit .295 with 40 home runs and 130 RBI. He was a great slugger in his peak who gobbled up ground balls at third base. For me, he always passed the "This guy is a Hall of Famer" test while he was playing. He didn't start producing until he was 25 years old and he wasn't very good after age 33. He also played first base some later in his career. Not quite the same career value as others. I vote yes based on his peak.

On to first base.

Rex Morgan was known as The Beast for a reason. He won two Stout Sluggers—one in the IL in 1997 and the other in the DL in 2001. Unbelievable hitter in his prime. In his 1997 Stout Slugger campaign, he hit .334 with 32 homers and 107 RBI. The season before, in which he didn't win the award, he hit .302 with 44 HR and 124 RBI. In his 2001 Stout Slugger season, he batted .304 with 40 home runs and 109 RBI and 104 runs scored. He finished with a career average of .295, a .898 OPS, and 412 home runs. If there's any bone to pick, it's that he played with eight different teams, which is probably a matter of circumstance. He's the next best first baseman after the three guys in the Hall, so I vote yes.

Joe Rojas was a player to be reckoned with in Mississippi and New York, where he made five All-Star teams and won three DWIs at first base. He was consistently among the five or so best players in the league for at least a full decade. To use a fancy pants stat, he was second in the league in VORP in 1989 and first in 2002—13 years apart! That's pretty wild. To use home runs instead, he finished 4th in 1989 and second in 2002. He was always one of the best, for a very long time, and he deserves to be inducted. I vote yes.

Carmem Chamissa won back-to-back Stout Sluggers in 1992 and 1993, a feat only a couple guys have pulled off in 33 seasons. He made seven All-Star teams thanks to his play particularly in Pawtucket, where he hit .308 with four 40-homer seasons. He oddly didn't put up his first full season until age 26 and his value was limited after age 34, so we're really voting on his peak value here. I wish he had more career value but I find myself needing to vote for a guy who was as good as he was in his prime. You can't ignore back-to-back Stout Sluggers and those 40 home run seasons. Yes.

Robby Shannon made three All-Star teams and won a DWI at first base. Strong hitter who often hit about .310 in his prime, including a career high 39 home runs in 1987. Great batting eye. The challenge with him is that his power was fleeting—outside of that 39 homer year, he never produced about 26 bombs. I haven't made any other MLB comparisons but he reminds me a lot of Will Clark. He's just a little bit on the outside looking in for me though I could see myself voting yes.

Eddie O'Fallon won a lot of rings, okay? He won five fucking rings and he wants you to remember that. If not for Keppel and Gremades playing the same position at the same league at the same time, he's probably a guy who has 7-8 All-Star appearances. As is, he made two. He's actually a lot like Shannon—Robby Shannon with rings, if you will. Despite the rings and Guides loyalty, I lean no—slightly. He might be deserving.

Z · 05-19-2015, 05:49 PM

How about outfielders?

Six of them currently grace the BLB's Hall: Mel "Doorbell" Woodbury, Rex Knight, Jose Guzman, Nick Latham, Pete Kellum, and I guess Finley Kinsey's bat.

Six outfielders in 33 years ... we definitely need more outfielders.

Here's the breakdown.

Dane Browning was a doubles machine in his prime. There have been 11 60-double seasons in BLB history and Browning is responsible for three of them. He made three All-Star teams and won a pair of DWIs. He was mostly a left fielder. Career .292 hitter who often batted about .320 in his prime. Only seven career home runs. He was a good two-way left fielder. Not a Hall of Famer to me but given the lack of guys in he has a good case.

Cesaro Campoveroe is a fucking Hall of Famer, okay? I'm sorry, I'm going to bat for the guy here. He's a member of the exclusive back-to-back Stout Slugger club, winning in 1984 and 1985 for Wilmington. He hit .332 in the first campaign and had 43 home runs, 123 RBIs, and 144 runs scored in the second. .990 OPS in both seasons. He helped lead Wilmington to the 1982 championship. He struggled with injuries in his 30s but still OPSed .944 with 29 home runs, 88 RBI, and 100 runs scored at age 36 for Baltimore in 1991. He once got on base 45% of the time for a full season. Dude was an incredible hitter. I'm voting for him. You should too.

Ken Cahill made five All-Star appearances, including one in 1981 and another in 1994 — 13 years apart! Great all-around hitter for Los Lunas. Career .306/.405/.449 guy. Very good and very steady. 2,547 career hits. His franchise was around .500 most of his time there and it hurt his visibility. He was one of the 5-10 best players in the Domestic League almost every year in the 1980s. I vote yes.

Subaru Hiraki won a pair of rings playing for Maine, where he hit .331 (!!) in his six years with the team. Not a home run guy but he was often among the league leaders in triples and also doubles. He made four All-Star teams and would like have made another one or two if he weren't already in his prime when the BLB began in 1978. He stole 380 bases. He was a splendid defensive center fielder. Sort of like Ichiro, but in center field, in his prime. Career .314 batting average. I'm voting for him.

Takanibu Sato played for a long very time and was often very good. 2,665 career hits with a .307 average. Really good batting eye, as evidenced by his .393 career OBP and numerous seasons north of .420. He led the league in batting average three times, including a crazy .362 season in 1983. I'm on the fence, leaning yes.

**Matt** · 05-19-2015, 06:26 PM

Great stuff Z!

Since I've been working on the list the last few days I have down who I want to vote for already...pushing 20 guys on the ballot.

Hopefully a handful get in...many of these guys are long overdue.

Z · 05-19-2015, 06:34 PM

Almost there ... let's talk pitchers.

We've only inducted two starting pitchers who entered the BLB universe after the inaugural 1978 season, so we need to get on that. And we haven't elected any relievers. We're due for more of both!

I'll begin with the starting pitchers.

Derrek Tucker made five All-Star teams. He was very, very good in both Washington and Los Angeles, a decade apart. 176 career wins and a 3.24 career ERA. I think he was a top two or three pitcher in Los Angeles for two or three years. The rest of his career I'd say he was more in the "very good" category. Despite having really liked him as a player, I lean no here.

Raulo Gutierrez made five All-Star teams and won the 1993 Pale Ale in the Domestic League. He had three separate stints with the Guides, where he was at his best. He made a dramatic return from a July injury to pitch well in the 2006 Brewmasters, helping the Guides win the championship. 202 career wins, 2625 strikeouts. The man had a 2.09 ERA at age 38 and a 2.99 ERA at age 39, the year in which he stepped up in the Brewmasters. He was oddly average in his early 30s, which keeps him from being one of the all-time five or so best pitchers. His peak performance and outstanding longevity make him a sure Hall of Famer though. He's got my vote.

Joe Ponte is a guy we whiffed on in the earlier voting. I believe he won back-to-back Pale Ale Pitchers in 1979 and 1980, though it doesn't seem to be showing up on his player page due to a bug, so make note of this. 1.88 ERA the first year, 1.82 ERA with 23 wins the second year. He also lasted a long enough time, making an All-Star team with a 2.48 ERA at age 34 in Philadelphia. Easy yes for me.

The Giant Killer Brian Hanrahan is sort of a John Smoltz, having been both an elite starting pitcher and an elite closer. 144 career wins and 312 career saves. He made seven All-Star teams. In a crazy partial season at age 41, he had a 2.17 ERA as a starting pitcher. 2.97 career ERA. I vote yes.

Joe "Bluto" Aurillo had one of the best pitching seasons in BLB history, going 22-1 with a 1.50 ERA in his 1983 Pale Ale Pitcher season. His best seasons were all before age 30, a stretch during which he was always one of the league's best. Great southpaw who made six All-Star games. Weird career in that he wasn't the same pitcher after age 30, but he still accumulated 175 wins, 2,125, and the 13th best pitcher WAR to date. I vote yes.

Anselmo Mapalo pitched all but one year of his career with Hartford. He made three All-Star teams and finished with 192 career wins — 16th all-time. His 3.37 ERA is special. He didn't get enough exposure playing in the shadow of the Guides' dynasty. Southpaw too. I feel he was one of the DL's five or so best starting pitchers in the early to mid 1980s. I'm on the fence.

Ezequiel Parongao is a four-time All-Star southpaw. 215 career wins — 9th all-time. He's also 8th all-time in pitching WAR. Best years as a Carolina Tob. 3.28 career ERA. Total workhorse — 200+ innings every year in the 1980s, often over 220 innings. Maybe the best control in league history, as he had the best walks per nine innings in the league five times. With his control, he was dominant in a way other pitchers weren't. He's a yes for me.

Romano Gonzalez, the Revenant, made four All-Star teams for Washington. He was 29 years old when the BLB began, which hurts his career numbers, though he still finished with 149 wins. He may have been better in his mid-30s than in his early-30s, which is interesting. ERAs comfortably below three from 1981-1983. I'm generally supportive of inducting guys who didn't have a chance for full careers due to the league beginning in 1978. Gonzalez was a top five pitcher in the IL for at least two years. I'm on the fence.

Tim Nathan was a workhorse with outstanding control, posting among the lowest walks numbers in the league eight times in his career. 215 career wins, 9th all-time. 15th all-time in pitcher WAR. From 1980 through 1985, he was one of the 5-10 best pitchers in the Import League. That's not quite enough for me to vote him in, but maybe it is for you.

Pete Fitzgerald has a similar case to Derrek Tucker except he actually won the Pale Ale, winning it for my Pittsburgh club in 1992. He won 17 games and had a 2.62 ERA that year. That season was oddly bordered by years in which he posted 5.19 and 4.01 ERAs. 186 career wins and 2,016 strikeouts are nothing to scoff at. He might have actually peaked in his early and mid-30s in Philadelphia, where he made four consecutive All-Star games. He's on the fence.

Gervasio Dealba won the Pale Ale Pitcher in 1986 pitching for Andrew's Guides team. He won three rings — one for the 1982 Wilmington champions and two with Maine in the mid-80s. 239 career wins ranks third all-time. Hard to find more of a winner than Gervasio Dealba, if that's your main criteria. He's also 8th all-time with 2,783 strikeouts. His control was a problem throughout his career, and the 3.74 career ERA is a sore spot. I'm on the fence.

Okay, let's finish up with the relief pitchers. As I mentioned, it's been a long time since we inducted a new one.

J.J. Black was, at his peak, the most terrifying closer in the league, and that has to count for something. When the southpaw was throwing fireballs for Los Lunas from 1990 to 2001 — and especially from 1991 to 1999 — he was more dominant at his position than anyone else was at theirs. 1.73 career ERA speaks volumes. He has to be in. Yes!

Ken Bayer is the BLB's all-time saves leader. He has a 2.25 career ERA. He often had an ERA that began with a 1. He pitched until age 40. He made ten All-Star teams. He was a southpaw. If you believe in voting for relief pitchers, it'd be hard not to vote for Ken Bayer.

Adrian Diaz is third all-time in saves. Career 2.60 ERA. He pitched until he was 42 years old. Like Bayer, ten All-Star appearances. He's pretty clearly one of the best relief pitchers ever. Where exactly he ranks, I'm not sure. He won Refreshing New Brew in 1986. Great tenures in both Dallas and Pittsburgh. He threw more innings than any other relief pitcher in league history except Ureste by my count. That counts for a lot. Again, if you believe in voting for relief pitchers, you should vote for Diaz.

Dae-hee Yi was a southpaw. He threw over 1,548 career innings in relief, which is one of the best marks ever. Career 2.46 ERA. At his best in Dallas, but also good in Maine in his late 30s and early 40s. He had a preposterous 0.51 ERA with 41 saves for Dallas at age 36, which perhaps merits induction on its own. Massive props for often pitching over 100 innings a year regularly in Dallas. I'm on the fence, leaning yes.

Clarence Ortiz made seven All-Star teams. Career 2.30 ERA. Another lefty. Didn't throw as many innings as the other guys. Elite in Indianapolis and Washington and even for a year in Syracuse. He struck out a lot of guys. Sixth all-time in saves. Consistently one of the best closers in the game. It's hard to know where to draw the line with relief pitchers. On the fence, leaning yes.

I'd be down with inducting all five of those guys. Unless you're super strict with relief pitcher criteria, those guys were all outstanding.

Z · 05-19-2015, 06:35 PM

I think I covered everyone. There goes my afternoon.

**BDub** · 05-19-2015, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by umd View Post

BDub, please retire Chuck Durham's number. Dude is a legend and my favorite BLB player of all time.

Perhaps we could have a section for retired numbers since OOTP 15 doesn't do a good job of it? My signature would become muddled if I added that like some other GMs have done.

**BDub** · 05-19-2015, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by BDub View Post

Perhaps we could have a section for retired numbers since OOTP 15 doesn't do a good job of it? My signature would become muddled if I added that like some other GMs have done.

Shit, nevermind. Matt posted a thread yesterday about retired numbers.

**Matt** · 05-19-2015, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by TheLetterZ View Post

I think I covered everyone. There goes my afternoon.

Amazing job Z!

**BDub** · 05-19-2015, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by TheLetterZ View Post

I think I covered everyone. There goes my afternoon.

I enjoyed reading your post. Good history lesson on some of the greats from the league's past.

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